Upenn

[theory_junky]

I really hope that immersion and vecrhite have both gone into the User Control Panel thing on this site and added each other as "foes." I always wondered what that even meant, but seeing the two of you, it makes so much sense.

Why is it that having a debate must make us foes? We are in higher academics--we should be used to handling conflict and debating intelligently.

Although I think that this post took a turn for the worst once ill wishes came into play, I think it brings up an important issue in liberal arts institution. Namely, I am on the side of not being condescending or overly squeamish about what constitutes as offensive language. The point is to have a dialogue, not shut others down through blame or condescension. The last thing we should do as teachers and intellectuals is assume a position of superiority for our thinking; this is, I think, an indication of bad faith, and also defeats the purpose of why we are willing to forsake things like money, adequate shelter, or having personal lives that start once the work day ends. Or at least, I like to think so. A girl's gotta sleep at night....

[kfed2020]

Sigh. I won't sleep until I get tenure.

[teaganc]

Why is it that having a debate must make us foes? We are in higher academics--we should be used to handling conflict and debating intelligently.

Having a debate does not make people foes... e-yelling "I hope you don't get in anywhere!" totally does. Or rather, if that's not a foe, I don't want to know what your friends are like.

You are right that highly educated people ought to be able to have debates which are both intelligent and also congenial, but that doesn't mean that you can't congenially have foes. I have worked with people who I not only disagreed with, but downright strongly disliked, and was able to do it in professional way. I think that's really the crux of it; we forget that being an academic should be a professional position, even as a student, and that our fellow students will in the future be our fellow colleagues, even if it is just in the abstract sense of reading each others' articles.

[omgninjas]

*announcer voice*

kfed wins

flawless victory

by the way, when someone points out the racism inherent in something you've said, I HAVE BLACK FRIENDS is not a good defense.

[nicholysseus]

*claps* kedfed. I infinitely appeciate ur position.

Nevertheless, I disagree. But stil, pains are felt everwhere. I'm a good pesron. My frineds, many of then, are grad students, who disagree with me, but I don't extend that further. All I want, from you and other is this: we are living in a time of cultural hodgepodge, strageness, and disarray. All lines implode, subvert, and re-orient. I truly, deeply love people. I've dated black, asian, latin men, in my life. And for soem pesron to accuse me of racism.... it's disgusting. Maybe the joke doesn't well executed... but we ALL HAVE BRAINS. We swe the intent. and I REFUSSSEEEE to accept I was wrong. I'm a smart guy. I was in law school. I know what's up, and frankly, this is this bullshit. I'm infinitely respectful of intelligent argument, but not PC argument which just exists because it's so.

We're ALL racist. Saying something like "I'm not racist" simply demonstrates one's ignorance of a fundamental fact of human (and especially American) life. You can't grow up in a culture like ours and not absorb its racial biases--those of your family, your town, your state, the country as a whole. These settle into your brain from childhood, and you can't just pick them out because you want to feel good about yourself in college by making some friends of different races (btw: "I've dated black, asian, latin men" = "my best friend is black." not ok.). So the question becomes not whether one is racist or not (the answer is always YES), but rather whether one is proactive about confronting the racism that inevitably bubbles to the surface. If you have a conversation about it, realize what has been said, done, etc. and do your best to remedy it, then one can come as close to being not racist as humanly possible. This is why "I REFUSSSEEEE to accept I was wrong" is so disturbing.

[engguy]

quick thoughts on this: i've been following this person's posts for a while now -- to the extent that time and attention allow -- and to me they just seem provocative to no real end (so, essentially harmless, though hardly as amusing on the one hand or innocent on the other as some have urged us to believe, and as kfed aptly pointed out).

what is this space? an online forum for applicants to grad school / those who have already been accepted / those already attending. it is -- perhaps -- a sort of virtual graduate seminar, albeit one that is open to people of vastly different disciplines, skill and maturity levels -- an imaginary, anonymous "room" where people on both sides of the grad acceptance fence get to exchange information and ideas. are there discursive "rules" at play here? expectations that we have in terms of -- well, terms, sensitivity, engagement? (i think of this too because of a dispute that broke out last year over someone who insisted on using text-speak in his or her messages.)

certainly, some of the language, ideas, and "jokes" that have been tossed into the mix are not of the sort that i would enjoy engaging with in an actual graduate seminar -- hence, i think, the wish stated by the previous poster "i hope you don't get in." but does that hold for this space as well? i don't know. easy enough to just ignore it and move on, i think; but at the same time, if someone actually takes offense, not out of line to speak up.

[booksareneat]

Wow. This is the most bizarre thread I've seen. I opened it just to see what was going on for UPENN folk and found this. Whoever said this debate should end is right.

However, as a brief point to Vecr: A) pointing out that you were in law school is silly, pointless and weirdly full of insecurity masked as elitism. Most importantly this is a public forum--irony doesn't work here. Ironic racist jokes (meaning jokes that reveal you are aware of the stereotype and making fun of it) doesn't work when you don't know other people. Those jokes (while always tacky) can work amongst friends when there is an expectation--they know you and know that saying such a thing MUST be ironic, because it defies what they know of you. It does not work amongst strangers, because it is NOT obvious that such a joke is ironic.

Who gives a sh*t if you're wrong? It's a bizarre thing to say. There was a post elsewhere where you threw out an ironic "yeah, I'm anti-gay" joke and I thought to myself, "wow, that's a dumb thing to say amongst strangers."

Why not just use this forum as a place to share information about the process and sometimes to vent heathfully. Irony is humor for the lazy.

Sorry for the sermon.

[LOLhedgefunds]

UPENN = PWNAGE STOP CALLED TODAY STOP IF HAVENT HEARD THEN NOT ADMITTED STOP SUXX FULL STOP

[kfed2020]

Btw, it SHOULD be mentioned that "racist" was pulled out from a hat... from my use of the word "ghetto." I never even mentioned race at ALL in the joke.

What I still fail to understand is why you're playing dumb. What's the purpose? It's provocative in the least productive way imaginable; and it is not now -- nor was it ever, at any point in this conversation -- 'funny.'

To that end, I repeat my earlier assertion that this conversation needs to end. There are more satisfying places than this to watch dogs chase their tails.

[theory_junky]

ok, i didn't want to resort to this, but hey--someone has to do it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz3qDu0WemM

[omgninjas]

I hate to drag out this derail, but come on..

Until you can concede you could possibly be wrong, I'm just going to assume your smug, along with everyone else.

I REFUSSSEEEE to accept I was wrong. I'm a smart guy. I was in law school.

The original comment, whatever. Your response afterwards, damn.