Grades and applying to PhD programs

[hkcool]

I'm unsure as of yet whether I want a masters or PhD but I'll have to start applying next semester. Anyway, I'm double majoring in mechanical engineering and computational math. I really love the latter and will be applying to applied math programs. I do like mech too but at this point, I've put in 90% of the work that it seems like I'm doing myself an injustice if I drop it now. 

 

My grades for the most part have been mostly stellar...cumulatively I have mostly straight A's, and a couple of A-'s. The thing is, with the double major the workload is pretty significant and my grades this semester are slipping a little. I'm under no illusions that they're still great, but do grad schools want to see a gradual increase in GPA throughout your undergrad career or will they take into account your workload, etc.? I started off as just a single major and only added the second at the beginning of my junior year, so my workload suddenly increased dramatically.

 

Also, on the topic of grades, how important are study abroad grades in the grand scheme of things? I studied abroad and my grades were...not good. GPA was slightly sub-3.0. I wouldn't have traded the experience for anything and I'm sure it makes my application stronger (in terms of SOP, etc.) but the grades aren't doing me any favors. My school doesn't allow us to directly transfer grades from study abroad, but rather you just need to get at least a C+ in the course and the credit will transfer over.

[Arcanen]

I'm unsure as of yet whether I want a masters or PhD but I'll have to start applying next semester.

 

This makes things difficult, since masters and PhD applications are very different. The importance of research experience, the nature of your letters of recommendation, your personal statement; all are very different. Try to focus on figuring this out, and quickly. There are a few saving graces if you happen to have the research experience that would allow you to be competitive for PhD programs. 1. Some (very strong) schools will consider you for the masters program if you fail to make it into the PhD program. Of particular interest is that schools that do this often give a disproportionate amount of masters places to these failed PhD students.  Whether this is because PhD applicants are so much stronger in general than masters applicants, or because they want to encourage people to apply to their PhD program after completing a masters, I can't say. 2. Many PhD programs will require you to get a (fully funded) masters as part of the PhD program.

 

That said, if you are sure you don't want to do a PhD, do not do attempt this as a cheap way to get a masters. The money thing seems really important, but it isn't when you consider you'll be able to go into industry immediately after finishing a masters. What is particularly important is that your professors may view you as a failure and be less than willing to use their contacts or give you letters of recommendation for jobs.

 

The thing is, with the double major the workload is pretty significant and my grades this semester are slipping a little.

 

Everyone has a sob story, they won't cut you any slack. That said, if your grades are strong overall there shouldn't be an issue.

 

but do grad schools want to see a gradual increase in GPA throughout your undergrad career

 

Well obviously the best thing is if your grades start high and stay high. If this isn't possible, an upward trajectory is definitely preferred. Again though, if your overall grades are strong it shouldn't matter too much. What is also important is your in-major GPA. If you apply to applied math programs, your grades in the relevant classes will be more important than in your mech eng classes. Consider this if your workload means you have to prioritise.

 

Also, on the topic of grades, how important are study abroad grades in the grand scheme of things?

 

This will be different for each of your applications. Some schools don't require transcripts from study abroad schools if the transcript from your home university lists it, often even if it's only listed as transfer credit without a grade (which sounds likely given your description). This may be an issue if you studied abroad only a few courses (e.g. a semester), but may be an issue if you took more (since it reads the same as if you took a number of important courses pass/fail). So for some schools it may not be an issue at all, for others it will matter. I had the opposite issue; I maintained my 4.0 when studying abroad and had to go to great lengths to make sure they were included and considered along with my standard transcript.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Arcanen

[hkcool]

Thanks, Arcanen. That was a really helpful post. 

 

It's good to hear that major-GPA matters the most, since my applied math grades are really stellar. I've got all A's and a single A- to my transcript in that regard.

 

Just a quick question about GPA: my school offers A+'s, and it's counted as a 4.33 on the transcript. I usually just convert my GPA to a 4.0 scale for resumes and applications (treat the A+ as a 4.00, since everything else is more or less the same). I know grad schools will have my official transcript that explains the grading scheme to them, but will they do their own conversion/ask me to convert to 4.0?

 

 

 

This makes things difficult, since masters and PhD applications are very different. The importance of research experience, the nature of your letters of recommendation, your personal statement; all are very different. Try to focus on figuring this out, and quickly. There are a few saving graces if you happen to have the research experience that would allow you to be competitive for PhD programs. 1. Some (very strong) schools will consider you for the masters program if you fail to make it into the PhD program. Of particular interest is that schools that do this often give a disproportionate amount of masters places to these failed PhD students.

 

I actually have have been going about my time as an undergrad as if I'll be applying to PhD programs, but am second-guessing that now. I have pretty good research experience at my home university and have published. This summer I'll be overseas doing research with a professor who is very highly-regarded in my field. I'm just not sure I'm cut out for 5 more years of university right after undergrad.

 

I'm actually strongly considering a gap year after graduating. I'd devote maybe a month to personal travel (I've saved up enough this year and last), then the remaining time to research. I'm positive I could line up a meaningful experience overseas again since I'm quite well connected at my home university. I really do love the research scene and would find it relaxing during the gap year. I think it would help my application in the long run.

[Arcanen]

They will often ask for a 4.0 conversion, but many will give you the option to use a non 4.0 system (that is most often used by students from outside the us). Use whichever option makes you look better.

[rscneurozombie]

Check with your school as to your GPA.  A 4.0 scale GPA is, by definition, A = 4.0.  An A at your school is also a 4.0.  Therefore I would be inclined to list my grade as X.X/4.0.  I believe the A+ is a tradeoff for the fact an A- will no longer give you a 4.0.  So in total your gpa will most likely balance out the + and - grades.  It does give incentive to try a little harder to get to that next level, though!

 

Many schools have transferred to the +/- scale, but previously schools did not differentiate between an A and A- or A+.

 

I would double check with your school, they may have more accurate information than random people (like me) on a website.

Edited April 29, 2013 by rscneurozombie