are certification programs a waste of time?

[talons1025]

Hello, 

 

I guess I have a few questions and am kind of in a state of uncertainty. But first, a little bit of background on me...

 

I graduated college with a degree in sociology / poli sci, moved to egypt for 6 months to study arabic and write about the political transition / elections in the country, moved back home to Chicago, and am now working for an insurance company.  In the 10 months i have been here, I am already being groomed for upper management, something that makes me quite flattered.  This, however, is not my desired life.

 

I have been wanting to get into the international affairs scene for ages now.  I suppose my desired "end game" would be working in diplomacy with the state dept or consulting in intelligence / political affairs for the government.  Obviously these are competitive end games, but that will not deter me from trying.

 

I noticed that Texas A&M has a certificate program in international affairs that seemed quite nice.  I figured that signing up for such a program would be a benefit to my resume and would still allow me to continue working where I am at.  Problem is, various professors have told me that certificate programs are a waste of time and that most MA/MS programs in international relations prefer students with relevant work experience and only take a select minority without it.  Also, they are typically leery of certificate programs, as the courses may not transfer as easily as indicated at the outset - particularly if one ends up trying to get credit from another institution.

 

So after hearing this news from 3 professors, I feel at a loss I suppose.  I would not feel right quitting my job to move somewhere to go to school (if getting a masters, I would greatly prefer going to somewhere in DC since that is where the contacts primarilly are.).  If I was to move, how would I afford to live without a job?  These are the issues I have I suppose.

 

I had thought that a certificate program would be nice to have on a resume since it would show potential employers (and even schools) that I at least KNOW material in that field, thus giving a leg up on applications for both schools and for jobs in the area so I could continue to work while going to school.

 

This brings my question, based on your experiences, are cert programs pretty much a waste of money?  How does one uproot their lives to go to school jobless?

[NGP]

School for most people = taking out loans.  It's painful, but it's the most straightforward way to "uproot your life to go to school jobless."

 

Does your company have overseas branches?  Could you spend a year working in insurance in the Middle East before grad school?

[talons1025]

my biggest fear with school loans is that I will be unable to pay them off.  I am surely overreacting, but I fear that the job market for IR masters is terrible and I would be stuck "under-employed"

 

Also, since I never took loans out for undergrad, I was unaware loans can be taken out for things such as food and rent, ya know, things that require living.

 

And in regards to overseas branches, that is a no go.  TO the best of my knowledge there are none.

[NGP]

You could probably get into a program now, but I doubt you would get much fin aid though I could be wrong.

 

If you are afraid of debt (as I am), my advice would be to leave your job and get more relevant experience.  This will put you in a better position to get fin aid.  Teaching English overseas generally pays well (compared to cost of living), especially in Asia.  Alternatively, you could get an internship in DC (e.g. WWICS) or NYC, but those generally pay little if anything.

[talons1025]

considered relevant experience?  I did some of that (off the radar) while living in Cairo.  I would LOVE to do it again.  I specialize in the middle east, and from what I understand it is very difficult to teach there without a lot of experience.  I would be very happy to go to Asia to do it. 

 

I had figured that "relevant experience" would be something like working as an intern for some Gov. contractor haha.

[Gov2School]

Have you considered joining the Peace Corps? Peace Corps alums get preferential hiring for government jobs, similar to what veterans get. If you really want to get hired by the government, and you don't plan on coming in through another channel (i.e. joining the Foreign Service, doing a fellowship like Pickering/Rangel/PMF etc), then getting the added boost from preferential hiring can really make a difference, especially if your resume is otherwise unusual. 

 

Also keep in mind that you don't need an MA in International Affairs to work in international affairs.  People with business, economics, communications, education, engineering, all kinds of backgrounds are valued in government. If you're worried about taking out loans for an IR degree, what about for a business or law degree?  Maybe that's something you can pursue without moving away/immediately giving up your job. Also keep in mind that not all international affairs are in Washington. There may be groups or organizations in your home town or state that work on international issues that are of interest to you. Or perhaps you could start one? 

[talons1025]

I have considered the Peace Corps.  That is something I would absolutely LOVE to do to be honest.  The thing that is holding me back is my girlfriend.  Since we are not married she could not come with.  That is why ESL is so lovely, she can easily do something like that (in fact it is something she WANTS to do).

 

Yeah all IR is not in washington, but that is where the best and most Gov't networks and contacts are.  Simply put, it seems like the best place to be.

 

I have considered a business degree and a law degree, but it seems that those two routes are the routes that a lot of people go to, so the value of the degrees seems to have lost its value.  Plus, I abosolutely love foreign affairs.  Between reading foreign policy magazine and studying up on textbooks about foreign policies, my heart truly lies in this field.

[NGP]

I second the advice to look beyond pure IR degrees.  They are often more widely marketable.

 

And, from talking to people in the UN and WB, it's easier to get in if you specialize rather than be a generalist.  For example, one guy I know who currently works for the World Bank in Africa got his MS in aquaculture.

[talons1025]

Ok so look into other degrees. Like what though? When I see requirements for jobs that interest me such as diplomacy related jobs and intelligence related jobs, international affairs is usually covering the main points

[NGP]

Oh -- sorry -- I just re-read your original post.  You're interested in State Dept or intelligence consulting.

 

I have a friend who works at Booz Allen Hamilton.  He got in with a dual BA in History and Business.  He worked for two years at small-time defense contractors doing non-sexy work before getting hired as an analyst at Booz.  I don't know exactly what he does now at Booz (I don't ask) but I don't think it's anything especially sexy.  BUT...he is doing an online master's (in a business related field) while still working in order to transition to other stuff.  Apparently Booz has agreements with certain master's programs that allows employees to automatically be accepted and study around their work schedules.

 

All of this is to say: perhaps it's worth trying to find a position at a defense contractor where your insurance experience might be applicable and then work your way up/to a new area from there.

 

I remember my friend saying that what helped him get hired at Booz was the time he spent at the smaller companies getting progressively higher security clearances.  Apparently, it's easier somehow to move up in security clearances at smaller companies that get defense contracts.  If I remember correctly, he said that upgrading an employee's security clearance costs the employer money, so they only do it when necessary -- and at a place like Booz there is always someone else who already has the higher clearance.

 

On another note, I know of another person who did some State Dept internships (pol-mil) before getting a MA in international affairs and now also works at Booz.  I bet he does more interesting work, but I'm sure he racked up a ton more debt.  My friend with only the BA doesn't have any debt (and even bought his own home in his 20s) and seems to be advancing at a fair rate by going to school through his employer.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Nabad

[talons1025]

I would love to at least get started by working for small time defense contractors.  I think my issue is that, despite living overseas, having some knowledge of a critically important foreign language, and having articles published by journals, I feel inadequate in terms of "international affairs schooling."  This is why i thought the certificate program at AM would be a good precursor to a grad degree...to GAIN more confidence in my resume to become more desireable to even those small time contractors.

 

Too bad internships are kind of out of my options since I am no longer in school

[NGP]

A small contractor is not going to care about an international affairs certificate (probably not a large contractor either).  They have specific projects with specific requirements.  At the lower levels, they will care more about whether you know how to use Excel and manage a project than if you know about international diplomacy.  International diplomacy is such a small part of what they do.

 

You could also look at Edward Snowden's (now famous) career history.  He didn't even have a college degree!  But he knew computer programming.

[mrgreen102]

I don't know that much about IR certification programs so I can't speak to if they are a sound investment or not.  But certificates are definitely not necessary for IR graduate programs.

 

1) If you are interested in going to graduate school for international affairs, than it automatically helps you that you have experience working abroad.  Don't stress out about a lack of internship experience.  I know someone who got into Columbia's SIPA Program and they were an English major and a Chinese minor.  He lived and worked in China for a year but he did not know much about IR.  I don't know if he got any funding from Columbia though.

 

Have you taken any economics courses?  Top MPA/MPP and IR graduate programs often require applicants to have taken Intro to Macroeconomics and/or Intro to Microeconomics.  How good is your Arabic?  Your application should be pretty competitive if you become proficient.

 

2) If you just want to work in international affairs or defense, then you have a few options. Work full-time but see if you can help out at a nonprofit or NGO on the side.  Maybe you can't be an intern but you can always be a volunteer. Also think about if you have any skills that you can apply to the defense industry.  How good are you with numbers?  How about computers?

 

You could also stay at your insurance company, climb the ladder to upper management, and then apply to business school.  

[talons1025]

I have taken both macro and micro econ in college.  I highly enjoyed them both and would get an advanced degree in econ or finance, but I just don't have the same passion for them as I do IR...even if those two degrees have more "value."

 

My arabic is decent, but unfortunately i have lost some of my proficiency having moved back to America, but I have started to crack open my textbooks and tapes again and am looking to hire a tutor.

 

I would like to continue to work full time, but finding NGOs to volunteer at in the midwest seems very hard to do...hell i wouldnt even know where to look.  I have loads of international NGO contacts from when i lived overseas, but that does not help me much now; especially if i wish to continue working for my company or anyone.

 

I love numbers and i love computers even more.  I have a knack with them, its just too bad I never learned programming.

 

 

While climbing the ladder here at Chicago Title is very possible and would likely happen if I still worked here, this job is not my passion.  I cannot fathom being here longer than 5 years, despite the upper management thinking very highly of me.

[mrgreen102]

Well how old are you?  You might not have to be at your company for 5 more years if they are truly grooming you for upper management.

 

You could always teach yourself programming.

 

Chicago has a number of IR think tanks and non-profit organizations.  Check out sites like Idealist or do a Google search.  What do you have to lose?  Maybe they won't hire you at first.  But it can't hurt reaching out to them, especially if you have a skill they might need.

[talons1025]

I am 26.  I have considered teaching myself programming, but I think my time could be better spent elsewhere.. such as keeping up with my arabic and such.  I will check out some of the non-profits in Chicago and the surrounding areas.

 

SO what you are pretty much saying is that a graduate degree in IR is not really necessary for jobs in the intel / diplomacy field then?  Just pretty much get that foot in the door somewhere and get some experience.  I assume ESL teaching overseas really would not constitute as relevant experience for a defense contractor ha!

[mrgreen102]

A graduate degree in IR is most likely not necessary for jobs in intelligence / diplomacy if you already have your foot in the door.  It is the same thing as people who are in finance who choose not to get MBAs.  Why get an MBA or any type of graduate degree if you are already working in a field that you enjoy and you can just work your way up?

 

I doubt that teaching experience would help you get a defense contractor job (unless you were a spy or something).  But it would help you stand out in applying to international relations graduate programs.

 

These types of professional programs won't qualify you for certain positions anymore than having work experience in the field.  However, they will give you invaluable networking opportunities.  You can then use those opportunities to find a job.

[talons1025]

I am thinking of looking into GIS (geographic information systems).  I hear it is a good start to an intel based career; diplomacy, not so much.  I am having a rather difficult time finding programs to attempt volunteer with to "get my foot in the door" so it seems further education is what needs to happen.

 

I understand the reasoning of not necessarily going the IR route when it comes to schooling.  If I do not go that route, I will probably look into finance or comp sci (two of my other interests).

but even with a finance / comp sci degree, I cant help but think IR certification would be benefitial

Edited July 3, 2013 by talons1025