US MA or Canadian MA?

[Davidspring]

Hi friends,

 

Let's talk about a sensitive but interesting topic. On the PGR we can see that many MA programs are good options. However, not every MA program could provide full funds (The Canadian MA programs and the US MA programs would be able to fund their students, so some people may prefer to apply for these programs.). Now, the question is: are the US MA programs better options than the programs in Canada (most Canadian PhD programs also offer a terminal MA program)? Or, both of them have pros and cons?

Edited July 13, 2013 by Davidspring

[Megalopsuchia]

I am definitely particular on this subject, but for me unfunded and American MA's are not worth pursuing. I got my MA first, but after some experience it's become evidently clear that there is little to no incentive to recruit for doctoral programs from a university/college's own masters students. There's a reason why so many unfunded masters are offered and why doctoral programs continue to be exceptionally slim. This growing divide in number of masters students to doctoral students is only going to grow and cause uncalculated grief in the future.

 

Now, a funded masters is an asset. I am unfamiliar with Canadian culture on this subject, but if you can, avoid the unfunded American masters.

[bar_scene_gambler]

There are exceptions to the rule though, as you know. Not all American MA's are not worth pursuing. There are a few that have great placement records and funding for their students.

[Davidspring]

I am definitely particular on this subject, but for me unfunded and American MA's are not worth pursuing. I got my MA first, but after some experience it's become evidently clear that there is little to no incentive to recruit for doctoral programs from a university/college's own masters students. There's a reason why so many unfunded masters are offered and why doctoral programs continue to be exceptionally slim. This growing divide in number of masters students to doctoral students is only going to grow and cause uncalculated grief in the future.

 

Now, a funded masters is an asset. I am unfamiliar with Canadian culture on this subject, but if you can, avoid the unfunded American masters.

Thanks for your information. Most Canadian philosophy graduate programs (including terminal MA and PhD) can provide considerable funding, and some American MA programs can give decent funds (of course most American PhD programs are able to offer full funding).

[Davidspring]

There are exceptions to the rule though, as you know. Not all American MA's are not worth pursuing. There are a few that have great placement records and funding for their students.

Right. As to funding, the Canadian MA programs are more attractive, and their quality is also very high.

[maxhgns]

My only experience was with a Canadian MA program, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it's worth remembering that the role of the MA is very different in the US and Canada. In Canada, it's a prerequisite for doctoral study. Although the major Canadian PhD programs do allow applicants to enter straight from their UG, the culture of Canadian higher education is still such that MAs are part of the expected trajectory. In the US, on the other hand, they're viewed more as remedial than as essential. That's not to say that the programs in Canada are better than the good American ones, or anything like that. It's just to say that the expectations tend to be pretty different. So, for example, while a large number of American MA students may be working to compensate for a low number of UG philosophy courses (e.g. a minor or less), the default expectation in a Canadian MA is that everyone was an Honours student. Similarly, because the MA is viewed as a required stepping stone in Canada, the funding situation tends to be better.

 

 

That said, I don't think that, by and large, there's a significant difference in quality of philosophy MA education on either side of the border, at least when we're considering mid- and top-range MAs in both countries. The top-range American MAs tend to be more recognizable, especially for American audiences, but if you're Canadian I think you're just as well off staying in the country for the MA. Maybe even better off, given the funding situation.

[Davidspring]

My only experience was with a Canadian MA program, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think it's worth remembering that the role of the MA is very different in the US and Canada. In Canada, it's a prerequisite for doctoral study. Although the major Canadian PhD programs do allow applicants to enter straight from their UG, the culture of Canadian higher education is still such that MAs are part of the expected trajectory. In the US, on the other hand, they're viewed more as remedial than as essential. That's not to say that the programs in Canada are better than the good American ones, or anything like that. It's just to say that the expectations tend to be pretty different. So, for example, while a large number of American MA students may be working to compensate for a low number of UG philosophy courses (e.g. a minor or less), the default expectation in a Canadian MA is that everyone was an Honours student. Similarly, because the MA is viewed as a required stepping stone in Canada, the funding situation tends to be better.

 

 

That said, I don't think that, by and large, there's a significant difference in quality of philosophy MA education on either side of the border, at least when we're considering mid- and top-range MAs in both countries. The top-range American MAs tend to be more recognizable, especially for American audiences, but if you're Canadian I think you're just as well off staying in the country for the MA. Maybe even better off, given the funding situation.

Thank you! So which philosophy MA programs (including the PhD programs that have terminal MAs) are traditionally regarded as top ones in Canada (the PGR report mainly shows the views from the American philosophers)?

Edited July 18, 2013 by Davidspring

[maxhgns]

Thank you! So which philosophy MA programs (including the PhD programs that have terminal MAs) are traditionally regarded as top ones in Canada (the PGR report mainly shows the views from the American philosophers)?

 

 

Frankly, I don't think the PGR report is particularly credible or knowledgeable about Canadian MAs. It looks like it just mentions whatever ones came to mind.

 

Myself, I'm not as well informed about MAs as I am about PhD programs, but I don't think we've got any truly weak MA programs: they all look pretty decent to me. In my estimation, though, the MAs at SFU, Victoria, UAlberta, Queen's, Calgary, Toronto, Dalhousie, and UBC (in no particular order) are all very strong. I think the single best MA in the country is SFU's, though.

[Davidspring]

Frankly, I don't think the PGR report is particularly credible or knowledgeable about Canadian MAs. It looks like it just mentions whatever ones came to mind.

 

Myself, I'm not as well informed about MAs as I am about PhD programs, but I don't think we've got any truly weak MA programs: they all look pretty decent to me. In my estimation, though, the MAs at SFU, Victoria, UAlberta, Queen's, Calgary, Toronto, Dalhousie, and UBC (in no particular order) are all very strong. I think the single best MA in the country is SFU's, though.

Yeah, they are all very good. Thanks again.

[Jarrod]

I would add that you should probably be more concerned with placement rates than you are with the strength of the program. I would only apply to programs where you can get detailed information on where MA graduates end up. I haven't done an extensive search on Canadian MA's, but EG Manitoba's placement rate seems to be the same/better than some of those on Maxhgns's list, so it may be worth a look. That said, SFU's placement rate seems pretty darn good!

 

Also: if you are looking at Ontario programs, and you see that they require an "honours degree", they just mean a four year bachelors degree.

[Davidspring]

I would add that you should probably be more concerned with placement rates than you are with the strength of the program. I would only apply to programs where you can get detailed information on where MA graduates end up. I haven't done an extensive search on Canadian MA's, but EG Manitoba's placement rate seems to be the same/better than some of those on Maxhgns's list, so it may be worth a look. That said, SFU's placement rate seems pretty darn good!

 

Also: if you are looking at Ontario programs, and you see that they require an "honours degree", they just mean a four year bachelors degree.

This is true. But for the international students, they should also be concerned with the specific placement records for them. For example, at SFU, the international students' record is not so good as those Americans and Canadians'. Also, SFU does not update their record for the recent two years.