Chances of getting into a grad school in the US or Canada?

[Mure]

Hello,

 

Perhaps many people have asked this question but I just wanted to know the possibility of getting into a grad school with a relatively low GPA. 

 

Here are my stats: 

 

-BSc in Material Chemistry, GPA = 2.6 

-1 Publication on MRS Journal (2nd author) 

-1 publication on chemistry education (4th author out of 12) 

-4 conference presentations

-2 years as a research assistant in chem and biochem lab (plus a term intern at an Analytics company)

-volunteered 2 years in hospital, student clubs, 

-4 years high school chem and math tutor

-8 months volunteering in a refugee camp

 

My experience is in metal nanoparticles and nanocomposites. I have a deep interest of doing research in nanomedicine, nanomaterials, and nanotechnology in general. 

 

Job Opportunities

 

I heard from many people (or read) that jobs in the chemistry field are merged in engineering and medical professions. Since I graduated, I had difficult time finding a job in chemistry and perhaps similar stories could be true for MS. I am not aware about the US but it is really hard to find a job with a BSc in Chemistry in Canada. I could be wrong since I haven't moved to Alberta yet but I can tell you that Ontario and BC have little to offer. 

 

Plan B

 

In case if grad school doesn't work, I am thinking of joining the medical profession and getting a diploma in MRI or Radiology. 

 

Also, material chemistry is a multidisciplinary program and requires the application of engineering and physics. I was thinking of upgrading my degree to chemical/material engineering but that again would require a couple more years. I can use those years to get a diploma in Radiology and earn 60+k/year.

 

I would really appreciate if you guys can contribute your thoughts and suggestions, and advice on the direction forward in terms of career, jobs and marketability and stability of a profession.   

 

Thanks in advance. 

 

Mure

[Mure]

Anyone?

[GeoDUDE!]

under 3.0 is probably a 99% failure rate. Apply to programs that get very few applicants. Your GPA needs to be addressed in your SOP. I would call a relatively low gpa a 3.0, because thats the lowest GPA that is required for graduate school. 2.6 Is horrendous, unless you have your degree from Caltech or some other school that is known not to have grade inflation. 

[DropTheBase]

 2.6 Is horrendous, unless you have your degree from Caltech or some other school that is known not to have grade inflation. 

 

Not just Caltech, most public schools in general. 

 

The low GPA is certainly a drag on the application, but it is not a deal breaker by any means. GPA is low on the list of things considered for science PhD programs. The only thing that you should really watch out for is that most (if not all) PhD programs have an automatic (often computerized) cutoff at a GPA of 3.0. You can attempt to circumvent this by having a professor from your university personally appeal your application for review. This professor must really believe in you and more importantly, must be convincing. This can work and has worked. 

 

Your letters of recommendation and publications are going to be by far the most important (and impressive) thing about your application. Your main objective is just to have your application read. If you can pull that off, you have a MUCH higher chance than you think, even at prestigious institutions. Most applicants have no publications or conference presentations whatsoever. And as mentioned above, don't forget to address the GPA in your SOP (no pathetic excuses).

 

DTB

[Mure]

Thank you.

 

I am curious if my chances will be higher in Canada or in the US considering that most public schools have similar standards... 

[DropTheBase]

I don't know much about schools in Canada except U. of Waterloo. I ended up not applying to that prpgram because they would not accept PhD students without previously having a masters unless they had an 'A' standing. My gpa was not that high, so I just assumed they wouldn't consider me (contrary to the advice I posted above). I should have applied there anyway. What I mentioned above, I know is true for US institutions.

DTB

[Mure]

Thanks again!

[TakeruK]

I don't know much about schools in Canada except U. of Waterloo. I ended up not applying to that prpgram because they would not accept PhD students without previously having a masters unless they had an 'A' standing. My gpa was not that high, so I just assumed they wouldn't consider me (contrary to the advice I posted above). I should have applied there anyway. What I mentioned above, I know is true for US institutions.

DTB

 

This is because in the Canadian system, most science students are expected to complete a BSc, then a MSc, and then a PhD. The MSc and PhD programs are distinct/separate from each other and it's not unusual at all for a student to completely change project, supervisor, or even schools between these programs. In fact, even if you stay at the same school, on the same project, with the same supervisor, you would have to submit all of your transcripts, LORs, essays, etc. all over again, since you count as a new student in a new program. Sometimes, some programs will allow strong students direct entry to a PhD program or fast-track a MSc student into the PhD program after their first year.

 

To the OP, I think a 2.6 GPA is definitely too low for the big Canadian grad schools. I know that UBC has a campus-wide minimum of A- to be admitted by the Faculty of Graduate Studies, for example (if you're good, the department can fight for you, but the difference between A- and 2.6=B- is pretty large!). I think your chances will be better if you apply to places where people know you and can look past the low GPA since they know that you're capable of good work! For example, consider applying to work with your old supervisors and/or at your own undergrad school. In Canada, the "don't do your grad work at the same place as undergrad" stigma is much less since there are much fewer schools. Also, you could do a Masters and then go elsewhere for a PhD too. You probably also had collaborators that saw your good work, so maybe contact them to ask if they would consider you as a grad student!

[nugget]

I think it's easier to get into certain schools in the US due to an abundance of schools and programs in the US compared to Canada, especially unfunded programs with a high price tag attached. You might want to consider unfunded master's programs in the US, in addition to schools where your contacts are located.

 

It would also be a good idea to find out in advance if your application will be considered with your GPA so that you don't waste time and money on a school that will automatically eliminate you from the selection process.

 

If you have the opportunity to take a handful of extra courses part time to boost your GPA I would do it (since some schools only calculate the last 2 years of coursework into the GPA).

 

Best of luck!

Edited August 7, 2013 by jenste

[aberrant]

I think it's easier to get into certain schools in the US due to an abundance of schools and programs in the US compared to Canada, especially unfunded programs with a high price tag attached. You might want to consider unfunded master's programs in the US, in addition to schools where your contacts are located.

We are talking about science program(s) that generally requires money to get pricey materials, instruments, or tools -- no matter if you are doing bench work or computational work. I hardly ever heard of an unfunded PhD Chemistry program in the U.S. who is willing to take someone that is willing to pay for his/her own expenditure that includes tuition fee, let alone stipend. Abundance of schools doesn't make a program easier to get in -- to a point where the general minimum requirement can be abolished (as pointed out by some posts above). I'm not saying that you can't get into programs with a sub-3.0 GPA (in fact, I know someone who had a sub-3.0 GPA and is now in the 4th year PhD at Scripps), but you are also competing with other international applicants who are beyond 3.0 GPA, whether with or without incredible credentials. [This discussion is solely based on the GPA problem.]

 

Self-funded MS program can definitely be an option if money isn't an issue. But your plan B doesn't seem coherent with your plan A, which makes me wonder how deeply interested and passionate are you to do research on " nanomedicine, nanomaterials, and nanotechnology" for multiple years.

 

 

 

If you have the opportunity to take a handful of extra courses part time to boost your GPA I would do it (since some schools only calculate the last 2 years of coursework into the GPA).

I really doubt that there are STEM PhD programs would "only calculate the last 2 years of coursework into the GPA". True, some schools may tolerate applicants who did poorly in their early years in college, but that doesn't mean they do not consider them. Many factors will be considered when one reviews an application, but obviously, GPA is one of the first filters (if not actually the first) among all the factors.

 

As for the OP, why don't you fully prepared yourself (including your GRE, SOP/PS, LOR) before you bring this question up again? I just thought that people who are very determined to do a PhD in any field would be extremely prepared for that, even if he/she has to take a little detour.

[nugget]

I was not referring to an unfunded PhD program. I think an unfunded master's might be his best bet (any schools he can find that won't automatically eliminate him due to the GPA issue). Naturally programs that cost an arm and a leg cannot be afforded by the average person so if he applies to these kinds of schools his odds will be better because the stronger candidates won't go to schools that will put them into a lot of debt if they can avoid it.

 

In Canada, tuition is usually not more than $8,000 per year if you are Canadian so university is accessible to most people. Most Canadians, I believe, would balk at the idea of paying $20,000/yr in tuition to attend an unfunded program (however in the US these fees are the norm). Considering that there are fewer financial constraints for Canadians attending unfunded master's programs in Canada, the competition can tougher than in the US as more applicants can afford to return to school. At least I have found this to be the case for the programs I have looked into in my own field of study.   

 

We are talking about science program(s) that generally requires money to get pricey materials, instruments, or tools -- no matter if you are doing bench work or computational work. I hardly ever heard of an unfunded PhD Chemistry program in the U.S. who is willing to take someone that is willing to pay for his/her own expenditure that includes tuition fee, let alone stipend. Abundance of schools doesn't make a program easier to get in -- to a point where the general minimum requirement can be abolished (as pointed out by some posts above). I'm not saying that you can't get into programs with a sub-3.0 GPA (in fact, I know someone who had a sub-3.0 GPA and is now in the 4th year PhD at Scripps), but you are also competing with other international applicants who are beyond 3.0 GPA, whether with or without incredible credentials. [This discussion is solely based on the GPA problem.]

Edited August 9, 2013 by jenste

[TakeruK]

I really doubt that there are STEM PhD programs would "only calculate the last 2 years of coursework into the GPA". True, some schools may tolerate applicants who did poorly in their early years in college, but that doesn't mean they do not consider them. Many factors will be considered when one reviews an application, but obviously, GPA is one of the first filters (if not actually the first) among all the factors.

 

Actually, most STEM programs in Canada will only consider the "300" and "400" level (i.e. junior and senior) level courses in your GPA, no matter when you took them (so if you took advanced electromagnetism in your second year, it will still count towards your grad school GPA). Many, but not all, STEM programs will only count courses in the major field of study (e.g. for me, I only computed and reported my average grade for Physics, Math, and Astronomy courses). This allows us to take electives for fun without worrying about the consequences of a lower than average grade. Of course, you still need to do well in other areas, since the school will still see the entire transcript, but most published hard-cutoffs are given relative to your upper level major courses only.

[Mure]

 

Self-funded MS program can definitely be an option if money isn't an issue. But your plan B doesn't seem coherent with your plan A, which makes me wonder how deeply interested and passionate are you to do research on " nanomedicine, nanomaterials, and nanotechnology" for multiple years.

 

 

Hi aberrant, thanks for your feedback. I am considering plan B in case if my chances of getting into grad school doesn't work. I also read from many sources that finding a job with a chemistry degree is getting slimmer as years pass by. So that is why I am thinking of career change if all my current options don't work. But I would like to work with nanoparticles one day. I constantly read the literature related to such topics. 

[Mure]

This is because in the Canadian system, most science students are expected to complete a BSc, then a MSc, and then a PhD. The MSc and PhD programs are distinct/separate from each other and it's not unusual at all for a student to completely change project, supervisor, or even schools between these programs. In fact, even if you stay at the same school, on the same project, with the same supervisor, you would have to submit all of your transcripts, LORs, essays, etc. all over again, since you count as a new student in a new program. Sometimes, some programs will allow strong students direct entry to a PhD program or fast-track a MSc student into the PhD program after their first year.

 

To the OP, I think a 2.6 GPA is definitely too low for the big Canadian grad schools. I know that UBC has a campus-wide minimum of A- to be admitted by the Faculty of Graduate Studies, for example (if you're good, the department can fight for you, but the difference between A- and 2.6=B- is pretty large!). I think your chances will be better if you apply to places where people know you and can look past the low GPA since they know that you're capable of good work! For example, consider applying to work with your old supervisors and/or at your own undergrad school. In Canada, the "don't do your grad work at the same place as undergrad" stigma is much less since there are much fewer schools. Also, you could do a Masters and then go elsewhere for a PhD too. You probably also had collaborators that saw your good work, so maybe contact them to ask if they would consider you as a grad student!

 

Hi TakeruK, I would have loved to work with my previous professor had it not been for budget cuts and squeezed funds. Due to shortage in funds, the prof couldn't afford to keep me in the lab. Thanks for your suggestion.