Who should I ask for my third LoR?

[Anthranilic]

Hey guys,

 

First post here. I'm a rising senior, majoring in Chemistry, and I plan on applying to graduate programs for a PhD in chemistry (leaning towards Materials related research) this fall. I already have one LoR; I've worked for the past two summers and winters at a small Pharmaceutical company and during that time worked closely with my supervisor (PhD). The people there like me a lot (deserved or not, haha) and I expect that his LoR should be very good.

 

For my second recommendation, I plan on asking my Organic Chemistry professor. While I had class with him sophomore year, I liked him a lot and helped test out labs for him for a new course he was devloping during my junior year. Not exactly research, but I did get to hang out with him a bit in a lab setting. Obviously this recommendation won't be super strong, as he can't really comment on my research capacity, but I hope that he can say psotive things about my academic abilitiy (I got an A in orgo both semesters with him) as well as my interest in chemistry (I always was very engaged in class, asked a lot of questions), and my character (I think I'm nice, haha).

 

The third recommendation is a bit trickier. I regret to say that I never did research at my University (though I hope that my cumulative one year experience working full time at the pharmaceutical company, along with a paper I got out of it and (fingers crossed!!) a patent will suffice for research experience), so I don't have an additional research advisor to ask. While my orgo professor is the chemistry teacher I'm closest with, I still got along well with other professors who had me in both class and lab. One in particular I want to ask, but I'm worried that because I have no research experience or an out of class relationship with her the recommendation won't really mean much.

 

The other option for the third LoR would be another person from the pharma company I was at. I never directly worked under people other than my supervisor (who's writing my first LoR), but as I said people like me a lot there and I know one person in particular (also PhD) would gladly write an LoR for me and praise me extensively (again, warranted or not, they really like me there). However, the only experience she had with my research is in the form of presentations and talks I gave at the company - she was never in the lab with me.

 

Sorry for the long post. The final question remains: for my third LoR, should I ask a professor at my University who I'm on good terms with but don't have a close relationship with, or a person from the pharma company I interned at who likes me a lot but never worked in the lab with me?

 

Thanks for your input!

[fuzzylogician]

Sorry for the long post. The final question remains: for my third LoR, should I ask a professor at my University who I'm on good terms with but don't have a close relationship with, or a person from the pharma company I interned at who likes me a lot but never worked in the lab with me?

 

I think the professor is the better choice. Generally, since you're applying for a research PhD, it's better to have two academic LORs and one professional LOR and not the other way around. That aside, someone who never worked with you but likes you is really nothing more that a friend/colleague, and that's not the profile of a person you want to write you a letter, regardless of whether or not they have a PhD. 

[juilletmercredi]

I don't want to be a negative Nancy, but I don't think two summers and winters is enough research experience for a PhD program in chemistry.  That's not really a year cumulatively.  You'll be competing with students who have at least 2 years of research experience, but often have 3+ years and many who have full-time research associate and lab manager positions.

But I think it's common for that third recommendation to be a professor who only knows you in a classroom context.  My third recommendation for my NSF was from a professor who only taught me in one class my senior year, and I think for grad school one of my recommendations was also from a person who had only taught me in one class.  I think that is more appropriate than a person who only saw presentations and talks you gave but never worked with you directly.

[Anthranilic]

@juilletmercredi,

 

With regards to research experience, I completely disagree. Both summers have been from the start of May to late August. A little less than 4 months each - call each 3.5, so 7 months. The first winter was 1 month, the second winter was Janurary to March, so 3 months. That gives, in total, 11 months. You are correct in saying that's not really a full year, but 11 full months of 40hr/wk (often more) of research experience is still a lot. But it is incorrect to say that my research experience is not enough for a PhD program in chemistry. And if you don't believe me, ask the professors I've contacted about joining their lab groups (one from a University ranked in the top 20 by U.S. News and World report) and have recieved very positive responses from both. Though I agree that I would be a better candidate had I also done research at my university. As it stands, however, I still have a strong background in research.

 

With regards to the third recommendation, thanks for the input (this goes to fuzzylogician as well). I will probably ask a university professor who I had in class.