Selecting an advisor who can actually pay attention to you

[loginofpscl]

Hi everyone,

 

I know this question has probably been answered. With the new application cycle coming in, I was wondering how important it is for you guys to have an advisor who actually knows your name/ meets you more than three times a year.

 

I ask this because many of the big-names in any field are constantly traveling, giving presentations, and frequently interface with only the post-docs in the lab. I am tempted to apply to big-names in my field (solar energy) but they already have established reputations and are reputed to not bother with lowly grad students.

 

I know some people thrive in environments where they are given almost-full independence in the lab with their advisor out so much, but I feel like you would be missing out on such a crucial relationship that could otherwise be very fruitful (personal experience, advice, growth, .... recommendations.) Any thoughts?

[St Andrews Lynx]

My belief is that it's vital to have a PI who knows you on a personal level: if only because they won't be able to write a strong LOR for your postdoc/job or help you to network. It is also v. important to have a PI who respects you as a human being and future colleague - it's not going to be fun working 5 years for somebody who treats you like dirt or forgets you exist.

 

It really is down to your own personal preferences if you want to have a hands-off advisor or not (remember there's nothing to stop you from speaking to other faculty in the Dept/members of your thesis committee if you want personal advice, etc). If you've not yet applied to grad school then your preference list for PIs won't be a legally-binding document: you will have the opportunity to rotate through several labs before formally joining a group, and that's a great opportunity to see how you respond to different PI's styles. 

 

Hope that helps a bit!

[Eigen]

I'll second the idea that it's vital to have a PI who knows you and pays attention to you/your work, for the exact same reason as above: LoRs. 

 

And not just LoRs, but helping you network/find post-docs and open faculty positions. If you're just one of a mass of grad students, they won't be helping you on as personal or, likely, as dedicated of a level. If they know you personally, there's an extra push to help you find jobs and recommend you to people they know. 

 

I'd also say it's important to have a similar relationship with other faculty in the department/on your committee. 

[loginofpscl]

I might be thinking of this too mechanically but I do agree that having a large-name PI who barely pays attention to you would be detrimental, but on the other hand instant name recognition and a LoR from the guy goes a long way for positions later.

 

A particular professor I have in mind has mentored several graduate students into top faculty positions in universities around the US, and remain in close contact with him. Would it be too gamey/unrealistic if I have it in mind to join his former students' labs (now assistant profs, highly motivated) and then plan on a future postdoc with the senior prof and/or his associates?

Edited September 1, 2013 by loginofpscl

[St Andrews Lynx]

A particular professor I have in mind has mentored several graduate students into top faculty positions in universities around the US, and remain in close contact with him. Would it be too gamey/unrealistic if I have it in mind to join his former students' labs (now assistant profs, highly motivated) and then plan on a future postdoc with the senior prof and/or his associates?

Don't forget research fit and the chance that your research interests might change along the way! I would prioritise finding a PI that you work well with, who is doing research that excites you and who can bring out the best in you - a PIs personal connections and reputation should come in below that when you're deciding on potential groups.

 

It is quite common to do a "step-up" from your PhD to postdoc, but I would try to keep a more open mind about who you'd want to work for at this point. By the time you get to your PhD defence this senior prof might have run out of open positions or grant money, or something like that. 

[loginofpscl]

Thank you. I suppose it really just comes down to a lot of uncertainty as to how engaged the professors will be, and what kind of opportunities will be available afterwards with their names stamped on it. On that note-- how exactly do you know whether you would work well together? How do you know they can bring out the best in you?

I find myself looking at group photos to see how close-knit the groups are, and judging professor-student intimacy by the number of group members. Is there a better way to do this?

[St Andrews Lynx]

Your best bet is to meet with the PIs in question and talk to them. I could tell fairly quickly after meeting professors what their personalities were like and if I was clicking with them (you'll know). Talk to their current and former students, maybe also ask your current advisors for an opinion (gossip travels fast in academia, after all). 

 

I would be careful about using information on group websites to evaluate PIs. All a large number of grad students tells you is that the advisor has a lot of money, small numbers tell you that either the group doesn't have money or is just starting out - it doesn't tell you if the PI and grad students get on well or have constructive relationships. The overall group dynamics will change from year to year as people come and go...and a lot of those group website pictures are several years old!

[loginofpscl]

Thank you for the very informative replies. 

 

How did you meet your PIs? I am applying to variety of schools sitting on corners of the United States, and I'm not sure how I would go about sizing them up aside from National Conferences (too late now!)

 

I've e-mailed most of them to ask if they are taking in new students, and I can somewhat glean some information from their mode of reply (if they do at all), and luckily the ACS has archived video-talks of some of them so I was able to see what they were like from a limited perspective.

 

Like you said, I've heard a lot about several of my prospective PIs through gossip with my profs, which what was what initially led me to ask the entire question of 'selecting an adviser who pays attention.' The professor I talked of in my previous post was a virtual rockstar in my eyes (and in the media's, the public, the wider community, etc.) until I heard directly from one of his students that he has a twice-a-year approach to interfacing with his students.

 

Would it be passe to e-mail their current group members and ask: "Hey, so do you like your adviser?"

Edited September 2, 2013 by loginofpscl

[Faraday]

Thank you for the very informative replies. 

 

How did you meet your PIs? I am applying to variety of schools sitting on corners of the United States, and I'm not sure how I would go about sizing them up aside from National Conferences (too late now!)

 

I've e-mailed most of them to ask if they are taking in new students, and I can somewhat glean some information from their mode of reply (if they do at all), and luckily the ACS has archived video-talks of some of them so I was able to see what they were like from a limited perspective.

 

Like you said, I've heard a lot about several of my prospective PIs through gossip with my profs, which what was what initially led me to ask the entire question of 'selecting an adviser who pays attention.' The professor I talked of in my previous post was a virtual rockstar in my eyes (and in the media's, the public, the wider community, etc.) until I heard directly from one of his students that he has a twice-a-year approach to interfacing with his students.

 

Would it be passe to e-mail their current group members and ask: "Hey, so do you like your adviser?"

 

Worry about getting accepted to the schools you have PI's you are interested in first. It's unlikely bumping into them at a conference, watching a speech they gave, exchanging an email with them, or gossip will give you a realistic idea of what they will be like. If you are a domestic student all universities (that I've heard of) will fly you out and wine and dine you. During these recruitment weekends you will get individual or small group meetings with potential PIs. That will be your opportunity to meet them and get a feel for how you would interact with them. I agree with St. Andrews Lynx, you'll get a feeling pretty quickly for how they run their lab, and worse come to worse you can always ask something along the lines of, "How do you see your role as a PhD advisor as it applies to your interactions with students."

 

Good luck with your applications!

Edited September 3, 2013 by Faraday

[St Andrews Lynx]

I asked all my potential PIs: "Do you see yourself as a hands-on or a hands-off supervisor?" Their response will give you a good idea of how they view lab management (and how accurately they perceive themselves!) and mentorship. 

 

In general, only apply to schools where there are 3 or more PIs whom you think you would be interested in working for. That way if you find out that you don't like a particular PI at one institution, you will still have several alternatives. Spread out your applications across a range of Top 5-Top 100 schools and keep an open mind until you actually visit. 

[loginofpscl]

Thank you, I will ask them in person during visitation weekends if I get accepted to those institutions. In general, is the window for visitation weekends for a variety of schools large enough to allow for a meaningful time to make a decision?

[Faraday]

Thank you, I will ask them in person during visitation weekends if I get accepted to those institutions. In general, is the window for visitation weekends for a variety of schools large enough to allow for a meaningful time to make a decision?

Most weekends take place February-March. The three I went to were back-to-back-to-back starting the last weekend in February. Usually visits last Friday-Sunday, although I had one that started Thursday and I find a weekend is a pretty good amount of time to get a feel for how well you fit in as long as you know what to look for. Did that answer your question?

Edited September 6, 2013 by Faraday

[loginofpscl]

That is helpful, but did not quite answer my question: Would I have sufficient time to survey all the schools I am offered admission to before I am obligated to accept/reject their offer? Are coincident visitation weekends a problem?

[Faraday]

That is helpful, but did not quite answer my question: Would I have sufficient time to survey all the schools I am offered admission to before I am obligated to accept/reject their offer? Are coincident visitation weekends a problem?

I'm sorry, your question wasn't clear to me before. You have until April 15 to accept any offers and not lose out on any potential funding opportunities. Coinciding weekends are usually not a problem, most schools have at least two visiting weekends and if you still can't make one of those they will usually offer an individual visit. I would advise going to the visitation weekends if possible, as often visiting at another time means you might not quite get the same experience and potential PI's might be busy (they usually make themselves available on visitation weekends).

Edited September 7, 2013 by Faraday

[Guest |||]

One other bit to consider, contact current graduate students, or past-graduate students and ask for their opinion and insight.