Temple vs. Columbia Teachers College

[TulipOHare]

Dear gradcafe comrades, I seek your wisdom. I am torn between two schools for my MA in SLP: Temple University, and Teachers College at Columbia University (hereinafter TC).

The goal: Get my MA so I can work as a speech-language pathologist. Maybe PhD later, not sure.

Program/Faculty/Quality: Temple's program is 3 to 3 1/2 years long; TC's is 2 1/2 years. Reputation in the field is similar. I really like TC's style of clinical training, but Temple's program covers some special topics you don't get to study everywhere. Temple does a lot more research and is better known for its research, but the faculty at TC do work that's more closely in line with my interests. (Fwiw, I already have 4 years of full-time research experience, plus 2 years as a work-study RA in undergrad.)

Location: Temple is in Philadelphia, where I've lived for the last 7 1/2 years. So I wouldn't have to move or get used to a new place. TC is in New York City, which is a very cool place to be, but is very expensive too.

The cost: I currently hold $17k in student debt. Tuition (added up over the whole program) will cost me $42k at Temple and $81k at TC. Living expenses are high at both, though obviously higher at TC. As I've whined in other threads, neither school will be letting me know about assistantships or funding until after I have to decide, so I have to choose on the assumption that I will get nothing. TC has one edge: the NYC Dept. of Education will pay my tuition there in exchange for service after graduation (2 years service for every year they pay), which would cut the total bill down to just fees and living expenses.

My gut: I feel pulled toward TC, but the price tag scares the crap out of me! Though the NYC DOE service agreement gives me a way out of that (I have no problem being an indentured servant), I'm what-ifing "what if I hate or get tired of New York and then I'm stuck there for another four [EDIT] years." Temple would be so much cheaper and easier, but for no reason I can quantify, I'm more excited about TC. (Median pay in the US for SLPs is $57k, so I'll be making some money after I graduate... but... argh!)

Okay, hit me... any and all thoughts are welcome! (And thank you for reading this far )

[TulipOHare]

Okay, here's the tl;dr version.

Equal at both: reputation in the field; overall quality; won't tell me anything about $ until after April 15th.

Temple Pros: better known for research (so might be a better name if I go for a PhD later); I live near it already so wouldn't have to deal with moving or adjusting to a new place; half the cost of TC.

Temple Cons: not very excited about it; program is a year longer than TC's.

TC Pros: like their dept's style better; option of having NYC govt. pay my tuition if I work for the city schools after graduation; program is a year shorter than Temple's.

TC Cons: costs twice as much as Temple; incredibly expensive place to live.

Better? (Yesterday it all seemed so much more dramatic )

[dherres]

Program/Faculty/Quality: Temple's program is 3 to 3 1/2 years long; TC's is 2 1/2 years. Reputation in the field is similar. I really like TC's style of clinical training, but Temple's program covers some special topics you don't get to study everywhere. Temple does a lot more research and is better known for its research, but the faculty at TC do work that's more closely in line with my interests. (Fwiw, I already have 4 years of full-time research experience, plus 2 years as a work-study RA in undergrad.)

From what I've learned (or think I've learned, at least) from people on here, what carries the most weight in research is the quality of your own work. Even though Temple's program as a whole is known for its research, would TC make it easier to "stand out?" What I would consider is whether I would produce stellar research because it's on topics that I want to study and have a greater investment in, versus so-so research because I'm not as intrigued or excited by what I'm doing. As other people have pointed out, even graduates of Ivy League schools are having difficulty finding employment. I'd be curious to see their C.V.'s and compare them to those of some of the more well-known individuals in the field.

Location: Temple is in Philadelphia, where I've lived for the last 7 1/2 years. So I wouldn't have to move or get used to a new place. TC is in New York City, which is a very cool place to be, but is very expensive too.

Would the location affect your ability to network and make more/better contacts in the field?

The cost: I currently hold $17k in student debt. Tuition (added up over the whole program) will cost me $42k at Temple and $81k at TC. Living expenses are high at both, though obviously higher at TC. As I've whined in other threads, neither school will be letting me know about assistantships or funding until after I have to decide, so I have to choose on the assumption that I will get nothing. TC has one edge: the NYC Dept. of Education will pay my tuition there in exchange for service after graduation (2 years service for every year they pay), which would cut the total bill down to just fees and living expenses.

How easily do graduates of each program find work immediately upon graduation? And given the state of the economy, would the security of knowing I'd have a job (and a job that makes a difference in an area where change is greatly needed, if the philanthropy is important to you as well) outweigh other factors? (Aside: I'm considering TC as well -- do you know if all of their programs have that agreement with the NYC DOE?)

Good luck.... I hate having to make these decisions between what my brain tells me I "should" do and what my heart pulls me towards doing.

[liszt85]

Go where your heart tells you to go My vote is TC! Shorter program, so with three years more (than the time you'd have spent at Temple), you will also pay back the company that's willing to pay your tuition! (since if you serve them for 4 years after the 2.5 yr program, that will be 3.5+3..so with that 3 year extra service, you not only pay back your tuition, you also get a job as soon as you graduate and by the time you're done honoring your agreement, the economy hopefully should be back on its feet and you should be able to find a good job thereafter) So 6 years from now, you would have: Paid back the 17K debt you owe, honored the agreement with the company (in exchange for your tuition) + found a good job (when the economy is better).

[teaganc]

I would also go to TC over Temple, and I've lived in Philly (and love it there!) so I know what you mean about the location draw. However, I think that the NYC DOE service agreement thing really puts everything over the edge. That's a great opportunity, and it really makes the cost at TC much more affordable. Plus, you can tell yourself that the prestige in the field of the two is comparable, and maybe it is, but I think the reason you are inexplicably drawn to TC is that it's Columbia. I mean, this is an Ivy League school, and for people outside of your field, your family, your friends, etc., that is so much more impressive. Maybe this shouldn't make a difference, but all other things equal, I know that I would take the Ivy option. Maybe that's just me, though.

[letmeinplease]

Well the NYC Board of Ed scholarship isn't guaranteed for all SLP students who want it and given the economy, competition is going to be fierce. Plus I've been told that bilingual students (Spanish-English) are the most in-demand and that a bunch of good monolingual students have been turned away because of staffing interests, etc. However, if you are bilingual that is obviously amazing news! But just in case the unthinkable happened, would you be able to pay for TC out of pocket or would you, at least, be willing to take on that amount of debt to attend?

[TulipOHare]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Would the location affect your ability to network and make more/better contacts in the field?

No.

How easily do graduates of each program find work immediately upon graduation? And given the state of the economy, would the security of knowing I'd have a job (and a job that makes a difference in an area where change is greatly needed, if the philanthropy is important to you as well) outweigh other factors?

Both programs have had 100% placement rates for years and years -- SLP's a field with steady growth (woohoo health care!) and they're both known to be good programs. So I would be certain to get a job no matter what.

(Aside: I'm considering TC as well -- do you know if all of their programs have that agreement with the NYC DOE?)

Check for your program here: http://www.teachnycprograms.net/ -- under each link they have a list of participating schools.

Plus, you can tell yourself that the prestige in the field of the two is comparable, and maybe it is, but I think the reason you are inexplicably drawn to TC is that it's Columbia. I mean, this is an Ivy League school

Actually, the name doesn't matter that much to me... probably because my BA's from an Ivy. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt, and still paying it off! Okay, it would be kind of cool to be able to swing two Ivy degrees in people's faces, but the mystique is not that big a draw to me

[letmeinplease]

mean, this is an Ivy League school, and for people outside of your field, your family, your friends, etc., that is so much more impressive. Maybe this shouldn't make a difference, but all other things equal, I know that I would take the Ivy option. Maybe that's just me, though.

Well, SLP works a lot differently from other grad programs. We are guaranteed work after graduation because it is such an in-demand field that is understaffed. Also the best programs in SLP happen to be large, public institutions (U of Iowa, U of Wisconsin, U of Washington, U of Arizona, etc) so Columbia doesn't hold as much weight in this field as it would in say, English. I'd rather go to one of those public schools so I could brag about my clinical skills not the "prestige" of my school.

[TulipOHare]

so I could brag about my clinical skills not the "prestige" of my school.

What, like "I've been working with this global aphasic for a week and now she can recite Shakespeare" ? Sorry, I just find the idea of bragging about clinical skills kind of funny

Plus I've been told that bilingual students (Spanish-English) are the most in-demand and that a bunch of good monolingual students have been turned away because of staffing interests, etc. However, if you are bilingual that is obviously amazing news! But just in case the unthinkable happened, would you be able to pay for TC out of pocket or would you, at least, be willing to take on that amount of debt to attend?

I am going for the bilingual specialty at both TC and Temple So I've got the lock on that. But no, I am definitely not able to pay for TC out of pocket, and quintupling my student debt? Do not want.

[letmeinplease]

What, like "I've been working with this global aphasic for a week and now she can recite Shakespeare" ? Sorry, I just find the idea of bragging about clinical skills kind of funny

No need to be an asshole and no, that's not what I mean. I would hope that someone from an Ivy League, such as yourself, would know that not all programs are created equal. I am friends with a few young clinicians that specialized in the medical side of peds who never exposed to pediatric dysphagia. It boggles my mind, given the demand for . It's sad for them because I know a bunch of them chose their programs because of the school's name, not because the school was great for speech pathology. So I can brag to future employers that I have trained to treat and evaluate pediatric dysphagia and those other clinicians can brag that they, uh, went to NYU? Hee.

Oh well, they should have chosen one of the nation's top speech programs...like me!

Good luck, you'll need it.

[TulipOHare]

No need to be an asshole and no, that's not what I mean. I would hope that someone from an Ivy League, such as yourself, would know that not all programs are created equal. ... Good luck, you'll need it.

Meow! Geez. Yes, you're right that the top SLP programs aren't big-name private schools, but no need to be an asshole about that either.

[teaganc]

Well, SLP works a lot differently from other grad programs. We are guaranteed work after graduation because it is such an in-demand field that is understaffed. Also the best programs in SLP happen to be large, public institutions (U of Iowa, U of Wisconsin, U of Washington, U of Arizona, etc) so Columbia doesn't hold as much weight in this field as it would in say, English. I'd rather go to one of those public schools so I could brag about my clinical skills not the "prestige" of my school.

The OP said that the two were comparable in prestige within the field, with similar reputations. I was saying that all other things equal, I would rather take the Ivy option, because big names often open doors. Also, if the poster ever decides to do something outside of academia, many people will assume that Columbia has a much better program that U Iowa, even if that is not at all true.

[TulipOHare]

Update: I got some more details about the NYC DOE program, and I would actually have to commit to working for them for SIX years. That's a little much. Two years -- where do I sign? Four years -- maybe. Six years -- insanity. I could have Temple totally paid off in six years.

Barring some miracle (I'll be making some phone calls today regarding miracles), Temple it is.

[biffy4247]

When did you hear from Temple? I'm still waiting and getting anxious!

[speechmonkey8]

I just got accepted to TC and am trying to figure out if the price tag is worth it as well. I am not sure if that Ivy League name will get you anywhere in this field. Does anyone know any students at TC currently? If sok are they happy?

[TulipOHare]

The Ivy League name means nothing in the field.

[gretel]

I just got accepted to TC and am trying to figure out if the price tag is worth it as well. I am not sure if that Ivy League name will get you anywhere in this field. Does anyone know any students at TC currently? If sok are they happy?

Are you able to attend any of the events for admitted students? I'm attending one in NYC, although I'm 90% sure I will be going elsewhere. I don't understand TC's status as an "affiliate" of Columbia, and today I discovered that TC doesn't even share Columbia University's endowment, which seems ridiculous. I don't know of other Ivy League education schools that seem to have such a tenuous relationship to the university as a whole.

Edited April 5, 2011 by gretel

[mskip]

Just an FYI as a New York City resident and teacher....there are serious "freezes" in hiring and a lot of speech services are getting cut from the public schools. While the prospect of losing your loans is great, the tough part is getting a job. It took me almost 2 years to find a job in a high needs area.

I just wanted to give you that piece of info!