Who is on admissions committees? And does it help to

[Kibble]

Get references from admissions committee members or contacts?

I'm thinking long-term, am a non-traditional student considering returning for a masters and then a phd in the same place. Can I figure out who makes the phd admission decisions and then take courses in the hopes of a phd reference? If this would be useful, how do I do it?

[surefire]

Hi Kibble,

 

If you have a search through the forums, you will probably see different variations on this question. Here's one:

 

I wouldn't endorse the strategy you propose. Adcomms frequently shift in composition every year, so you're not going to be able to peg down who is on it. When I was on an adcomm, I agreed to the post in like, November, with the understanding that the committee would start meeting in February. Further, I know that some profs on the adcomm who did write letters for applicants in the pool RECUSED themselves from weighing in on the applicants fate as a committee member. The committee takes measures to ensure that everyone gets a fair shake, it wouldn't be fair if you could get "in" with an adcomm member and leverage that, you know? That wouldn't be fair to qualified external applicants and the like.

 

You should focus on the things you can control. Your best best is to secure references that are from strong profs that fit your profile and can speak to your strengths. In that sense, you want profs that are "known" to the adcomm, but "known" in the sense that they are "known" to be in your area of interest and leaders in the sub-discipline. You should pick courses that apply to your interests and research goals and cultivate a relationship with the prof therein. Ask around to find out which profs work in your sub-area of interest and pursue; but don't frame it like a letter-hunt, frame it like a pursuit of your growth as an academic. Profs recognize that you need letters, and you'd be surprised how early in a relationship they'll be receptive to a discussion about serving as references (they get the onerousness of the app timeframes). However, it is short-sighted to view these connections as a means to an end for letters. There's a difference between self-advocacy and scheming.

 

Good luck!

[ToomuchLes]

@surefire,

Does it matter WHO writes you a LOR - in terms of disciplinary?

 

My area of interest is in Antebellum US History. I received a LOR from a professor who teaches African American history/Civil War (I took multiple classes with him), another from a professor who teaches Progressive America, and lastly from a professor who's specialty is in Modern Euro History. Im pursuing another professor who teaches Colonial History, but since this quarter just started, and I need to ask him for a LOR in mid Nov, Im not sure how positive it will be, nor if he'll be willing to write me one. I would like to briefly mention that the Civil War professor, and the Progressive America professor are distinguished, and well known. Not sure if that counts for anything.

[surefire]

@surefire,

Does it matter WHO writes you a LOR - in terms of disciplinary?

 

My area of interest is in Antebellum US History. I received a LOR from a professor who teaches African American history/Civil War (I took multiple classes with him), another from a professor who teaches Progressive America, and lastly from a professor who's specialty is in Modern Euro History. Im pursuing another professor who teaches Colonial History, but since this quarter just started, and I need to ask him for a LOR in mid Nov, Im not sure how positive it will be, nor if he'll be willing to write me one. I would like to briefly mention that the Civil War professor, and the Progressive America professor are distinguished, and well known. Not sure if that counts for anything.

 

LeventeL,

 

I'm missing a bit of your context here. I'm going to assume that you're an upper-year undergrad. I don't know much about the particular dynamics of your discipline: I'm in a different discipline and, to boot (ha!), I'm Canadian, so when you say "Antebellum US History", I don't know what that means. I'm going to assume that it differs from the other sub-disciplines that you mention but that it is not antagonistic towards them.

 

You seemed to have secured three letter writers, I'm not sure why you're gunning for a fourth. Again, missing context. I would think that three is sufficient; when you get letter-writers on deck they'll usually agree to re-purpose a letter for the different schools you are applying for. I've never seen an app that asked for more than 3 letter-writers.

 

Anyway, all that disclosure aside, the short answer to your question of WHO, in terms of disciplinary, (in MY experience) is "not really". If you wrote an undergrad thesis, or you're an MA student who wrote an MRP, then you would typically get someone who supervised that research, even if your sub-disciplines don't exactly match. You should be picking people that can speak to your past work and furture potential (the "multiple-class" prof, for example, is a good one). Having to ask a prof that you've only known for a short period is not always preferable, given their capacity to get familiar with your work in that time, but as I mentioned to Kibble, application timeframes sometimes force your hand and profs usually recognize that and can be receptive to requests. As to distinguished profs: that is helpful but not as important as the imperative that the letter-writer is able to speak to your strengths. The adcomm that I was on was comprised of faculty/students from the discipline but not always IN the specific program, so they may recognize a distinguished name or they may not. They will recognize if the prof is a full professor and/or tenured, so it's good to get profs thst are established in that sense.

 

I would recommend, if you are looking to secure another letter-writer, that you speak to one of the profs that has already agreed to write you one. Run the name of the prospective letter writer past the secured letter-writer and see what their reaction is. And just be frank with requests: don't just ask if the person will write you a letter, ask whether they are equipped to write you a strong letter. Profs can write a general all-purpose LOR in no time, so many are "willing", but if you have a couple of choices, don't just settle for profs that are willing to write you a letter, focus on those that can speak specifically to your potential (and be sure to send them grades and a CV and your research proposals for your apps and maybe an essay that you wrote for them, to ensure that you can get them to speak to specifics).

 

Good luck.

[ToomuchLes]

@surefire,

Sorry for not being clear, and contextualizing my questions. Heres the long version =)

 

I am a community college transfer student, majoring in History. Currently I am in my undergrad senior year, and as I stated above, I have 3 secured LOR. Unfortunately, out of those three, only one professor is teaching my area of interest (the one whom Ive taken multiple classes with).

 

I would like to research how specific tariffs, instigated by the Northern states, decimated the S. Carolina's economy from 1790-1840. In short, I'd like to do early to mid 19^th century American economic history.

 

Excuses aside, I am sure many transfer students would agree with me, that it is extremely difficult to collect three LORs in a single academic year, much less from their area of interest. You're probably thinking that I should take a year off, so I may collect improved LOR in my remaining undergrad quarters. Personally I dont see a point in doing so. I have already finished a majority of my application, plus Im considered competitive enough to apply, and lastly, I already know what I'd like to study. Now you're thinking I should gain some real world experience, one outside of academia. Without going into a long tangent on my background, I can honestly give a nonpartisan answer that my story is an unusual one – being born in a decaying Communist country, living in a refugee camp, and immigrating to the US with a single mother.

 

Anyways, pathos aside, I now understand, after reading countless websites and surfing these forums, that an applicants LOR, sample, and SoP are the three most important factors, and so, Im concerned on the origins of my LOR. I know a positive LOR from a professor teaching Euro history would not necessarily hurt my application; however I have a theory that adcoms look at the author of the LOR. For example, a LOR from my Latin, or Intro to Physics professor would be considered a neutral letter, especially if my Professor of Interest (POI) is on the adcom. I feel that if the applicant's POI reads a LOR from a distinguished professor, one they can easily recognize their name, and pertains to applicants area of interest, it will increase the chances of acceptance.

 

With these concerns in mind, I look upon my superfluous LORs, the two not pertaining to my area of interest, as detrimental effects to my application. The institutions that I am applying to demand three LOR; however they allow a maximum of four to be included within your online application. I figure a letter from my current professor, who teaches upper division Colonial American history, would improve my application. Furthermore he is very distinguished in his field.

 

This is my first time taking a course with him. We meet 3 times a week, submit weekly document evaluations on primary sources, and although his class is classified as a lecture, it feels very much like a seminar, since we engage in debates. At the end of the quarter, we are the submit a research paper. My goal is to complete it by mid Nov, and on the same day I ask him for a LOR, turn in my research paper. That way he'll gain an insight on how I write and analyze primary documents.

 

I understand that quality is more important than quantity, however I do believe 4 LOR would be better, in my case. What do you think?

Edited October 19, 2013 by LeventeL

[TakeruK]

I agree with what surefire is saying. Here are some additional thoughts:

 

1. I wouldn't worry too much about having LORs from people who are not studying exactly the same subfield. Unless I am very wrong about my interpretation of your last post, your 3 LORs are all from History professors, right? I think that is good enough because you will be applying to a History PhD program at a History department, not Specific Topic X program at Specific Topic X department. That is, the people who will read your application will be all kinds of History professors, who will know names of researchers in all different subfields. So, while you would definitely not want a LOR from e.g. Intro to Physics prof (I think a letter like this would be worse than neutral, it would be actually negative), it should be okay if it's at least a history professor. 

 

2. I usually tell science students that it's great to have research experience, no matter the topic. That is, working a summer in a laser lab would be very useful for applying to grad school even in something like astronomy. What they want from the applicant is research experience, not necessarily established skills in the subfield you're applying to. So, others have told me that in the social sciences / humanities, it's harder to get research LORs, but if you have written extensive research/term paper for your history profs, they would be able to give insight in your ability to perform graduate level research work. Thus, I would say that your Civil War prof's insight about your ability to write a Civil War research paper would be very valuable towards your application, even if you are not applying to do Civil War research. Hope that makes sense?

 

3. It sounds like all 3 of your letters are from people you took classes from though. Although people have said it's harder to do research in your field, I've also heard others in your field talk about the importance of research LORs vs a "did well in class" LOR. Will you be doing a senior thesis? If you know that prof well enough, perhaps he or she can write a LOR for you. 

 

4. When it comes to LORs, I really think you should not have a 4th letter unless all four letters are exactly the same "goodness" and there is a reason for having four. If you have four potential letters that are not the same strength, determine which one is the weakest and eliminate that. I think the general advice of the community is that all of your LORs are basically seen as a whole (i.e. you can think of it as an "average"), so having 3 great LORs and 1 mediocre one is far worst than having 3 great LORs. I would reserve the 4th LOR only if you really need to include the point of view of someone critical to a certain part of your application. And, I don't mean any offense, but given that "classwork" LORs are not as strong as research based ones, I would not think there is a real advantage to having 4 coursework LORs vs 3 coursework LORs. In your shoes, I would try to determine which 3 profs would write the best letters and only use LORs from those three!

[ToomuchLes]

Thanks TakeruK! Your points make absolutely perfect sense, especially the part regarding research based LORs vs classwork LOR. 

 

Unfortunately I am not writing a senior thesis, however I will be presenting a paper at the Phi Alpha Theta (Honors History Society) Biennial Convention in January. I've already asked several graduate coordinators, and admission officers if I can include it in the CV, and they said yes. Furthermore, I am unable to participate in programs such as McNair since I am not an American citizen, so its difficult to engage in research based programs. My only "research" related activities include a conference I presented at in May 2013, and the one in January 2014. Personally I feel this part of my application, I am not competitive. Therefore, hopefully, my LORs will make up for it, since they were seminars and we were assigned single research papers, based on primarily sources, that were due at the end of the quarter.