How bad is bad on chemistry subject test?

[jac4226]

I am applying to Ph.D. programs for the fall of 2014.  Overall I believe I have a strong application.  Goldwater scholarship.  2 summers and 5 semesters of undergrad reasearch, 6 professional presentations, 3.9 gpa, etc.

 

I did well on the GRE general test (>90%), but I did terribly on the the subject test--33 percentile.  Should I even send this score to the programs I'm applying to that do not require it?  

 

Does anybody know what average scores are for any programs (with citation please)?  Also, does anyone know what average scores are for applicants graduating from U.S. institutions?

 

I'm rather surprised and distressed about this very low score.

[YaBoyAR]

C'mon man. Obviously don't send it if it's not required. What would be the point? At the schools that require it, is it going to look good? Of course not. Are you american? If so, it may not have a huge impact. Your other stats seem strong and should make up for it except for at schools that put heavy emphasis on the Chem GRE.

Edited November 18, 2013 by YaBoyAR

[Quantum Buckyball]

You don't have to submit that score. However, most of schools will make you take the diagnostic exams (e.g. organic, inorganic, biochemistry, analytical, and physical) during the first month of the semester.

It would be very alarming to the admission committee/research faculty if you don't do well on them, especially for someone with your background/research experience/scholarships.

[jac4226]

YaBoyAR

 

Do you have any support for your opinion? That is really what I was asking.  You don't need to go to a grad school forum to know that the 33rd percentile is not impressive, but I was hoping that someone may be able to provide me with--or point me towards--useful information.  I cannot find any statistics for the Chem GRE scores for admitted students to any schools other than Harvard (to which I am not applying).  Harvard's average incoming percentile is 70%--which seems very low for Harvard.  

 

Yes, I am American.

Edited November 18, 2013 by jac4226

[DropTheBase]

YaBoyAR

 

Do you have any support for your opinion? That is really what I was asking.  You don't need to go to a grad school forum to know that the 33rd percentile is not impressive, but I was hoping that someone may be able to provide me with--or point me towards--useful information.  I cannot find any statistics for the Chem GRE scores for admitted students to any schools other than Harvard (to which I am not applying).  Harvard's average incoming percentile is 70%--which seems very low for Harvard.  

 

Yes, I am American.

 

 

I have spoken to several members of admissions committees from Top 5 schools, all of them confirmed that the Chemistry GRE is by the far the least important part of the application (for Americans). I would highly recommend NOT sending the score for schools that say it's optional (almost all of them). If they absolutely require the Chemistry GRE, then send it anyway (what else are you going to do?). I know a few people from Top 5 schools who have done worse than you on that test.

 

Some schools actually have a minimum score for the Chem GRE. If these schools actually require the Chem GRE, then it would make sense to mention something about it in your SOP (to show that you know how to read the rules, at least).

 

Maybe some of my peers here will disagree, but given your impressive record, I can't for the life of me imagine a single, respectable faculty member arguing something along the lines of "Well, his/her Chem GRE is lower than average...he/she is clearly unfit to conduct research."

 

Even statistics showing average chem GRE scores aren't going to mean anything for you. How many people with below average Chem GRE scores have a Goldwater Scholarship??? (or high General GRE scores, for that matter.) Your high GPA alone is a testament to your intellectual abilities, which I'm certain your LORs will also corroborate.

 

DTB

[jac4226]

I have spoken to several members of admissions committees from Top 5 schools, all of them confirmed that the Chemistry GRE is by the far the least important part of the application (for Americans). I would highly recommend NOT sending the score for schools that say it's optional (almost all of them). If they absolutely require the Chemistry GRE, then send it anyway (what else are you going to do?). I know a few people from Top 5 schools who have done worse than you on that test.

 

Some schools actually have a minimum score for the Chem GRE. If these schools actually require the Chem GRE, then it would make sense to mention something about it in your SOP (to show that you know how to read the rules, at least).

 

Maybe some of my peers here will disagree, but given your impressive record, I can't for the life of me imagine a single, respectable faculty member arguing something along the lines of "Well, his/her Chem GRE is lower than average...he/she is clearly unfit to conduct research."

 

Even statistics showing average chem GRE scores aren't going to mean anything for you. How many people with below average Chem GRE scores have a Goldwater Scholarship??? (or high General GRE scores, for that matter.) Your high GPA alone is a testament to your intellectual abilities, which I'm certain your LORs will also corroborate.

 

DTB

 

That information is at least somewhat comforting.  For better or for worse (and most people will probably say for worse) I decided to just report my scores.  If a crummy subject test score is enough to disqualify me from a graduate program then I'm probably not qualified for that program anyway.  I'm thinking about writing a little statement for my apps that says something like "my subject test scores are bad, I know it, but I decided not to hide this from you."  I'm not one to make up excuses for why they are so bad, so I won't be saying anything like I was sick or my dog died.  I didn't study, but that just shows laziness on my part.  Anyway, I hope all of the other applicants on here are in the 67% who scored higher than me.  

 

Best of luck to all on your applications. 

 

I'm in the processes of getting demographic information from ETS, and if they actually provide me with it (which they said they would), I'll post it.  

[DropTheBase]

If a crummy subject test score is enough to disqualify me from a graduate program then I'm probably not qualified for that program anyway.  I'm thinking about writing a little statement for my apps that says something like "my subject test scores are bad, I know it, but I decided not to hide this from you."  I'm not one to make up excuses for why they are so bad, so I won't be saying anything like I was sick or my dog died.  I didn't study, but that just shows laziness on my part.  Anyway, I hope all of the other applicants on here are in the 67% who scored higher than me.  

 

 

No No and NO! You are qualified for every graduate program you apply to, and so is every other student on this forum. These programs are not mystical, righteous entities that conduct perfect research. Institutions are human; they come with professors that ridicule their students, students who fabricate data and departments/PI's that pay you nothing for working absurdly long hours. 

 

That means admissions committees are human too. Sometimes their members, mostly professors (real people), spend half a second on one application and an hour on another for no good reason. It's not a 100% fair system. Your job is to do everything you can to get in. You can worry about not feeling qualified later.

 

If you don't come off confident in your application, then you are giving the AdCom an excuse to gloss over your application. And it won't be because you're not qualified, it will be because of a needless mistake. 

 

To all applicants here: You should all be proud of what you accomplished. Don't forget to convey it in writing.

 

DTB

[YaBoyAR]

I think Jac4226 is trolling, but I'll play along.

This self-righteousness you are displaying is all well and cool, but you're sacrificing your own chances at schools by reporting awful results that aren't necessary. If University of Top10School doesn't require the score, don't report it. I definitely don't think that "I'm lazy and didn't study" is going to come off very well in your explanation, and I certainly don't need statistics to back that up.

You're probably a smart kid who is qualified and talented enough to get into good schools and do great work. Why sacrifice that opportunity?

[jac4226]

For one, I'm not trolling.  For two, I would never say in an application that I'm lazy and I did not study.  What I meant to said earlier is that I wouldn't say that I didn't study because this would just show laziness. 

 

Now to address the self-righteous attitude.  

When you take the exam, you can ask to have your scores reported to up to four schools for free (otherwise is costs $25 each).  I used this option.  This morning got my low scores and started this thread.  After initially hearing that I should not submit my scores, I called ETS to see if I could stop them from being sent.  They told me that there was no way to stop the scores from being sent.  I didn't fully explain the situation in my earlier post when I said "I decided to submit my scores."  So my advice to future test takers is to sacrifice the $100 and wait to see you scores before you send them.  Very silly mistake on my part.  

[DropTheBase]

For one, I'm not trolling.  For two, I would never say in an application that I'm lazy and I did not study.  What I meant to said earlier is that I wouldn't say that I didn't study because this would just show laziness. 

 

Now to address the self-righteous attitude.  

When you take the exam, you can ask to have your scores reported to up to four schools for free (otherwise is costs $25 each).  I used this option.  This morning got my low scores and started this thread.  After initially hearing that I should not submit my scores, I called ETS to see if I could stop them from being sent.  They told me that there was no way to stop the scores from being sent.  I didn't fully explain the situation in my earlier post when I said "I decided to submit my scores."  So my advice to future test takers is to sacrifice the $100 and wait to see you scores before you send them.  Very silly mistake on my part.  

 

That makes SOOOO much more sense now. haha. I also made that mistake. I agree, it's definitely worth sacrificing the $100 unless you're certain you aced it.

 

That's rough.

 

DTB

[asaprocky]

YaBoyAR

 

Do you have any support for your opinion? That is really what I was asking.  You don't need to go to a grad school forum to know that the 33rd percentile is not impressive, but I was hoping that someone may be able to provide me with--or point me towards--useful information.  I cannot find any statistics for the Chem GRE scores for admitted students to any schools other than Harvard (to which I am not applying).  Harvard's average incoming percentile is 70%--which seems very low for Harvard.  

 

Yes, I am American.

 

Here is northwestern's. Maybe more middle of the road relative to the schools you could be applying to

 

http://www.chemistry.northwestern.edu/graduate/prospective/faq.html

[Faraday]

70th percentile for a domestic student is close to a perfect score. Foreigners from China, India, etc. take the exam after having learned college level chemistry from middle school-age onward, and a good many of them already have a masters as well. They ace the Chemistry GRE and throw the percentiles way off.

 

As was previously mentioned, if the average score for Harvard is 70%, that would make since since they are top students in the nation (and a few foreigners who scored 99%) to get that average. Northwestern is a respectable program and you can see their percentile is much lower than that. I imagine the same would be true of any school other than Berkeley/Caltech/MIT/Harvard/Stanford/Scripps (for organic) and even those schools would accept a domestic with a low score provided there were very strong credentials elsewhere in the application.

[brooksja5]

Did you guys notice that the scale was super weird? I got a 730 scaled score... but only 57% percentile. Is that something I should look into? Seems low.

Thanks.

[YaBoyAR]

Dude, that really sucks. What a crappy situation. I hadn't even considered that. When the same option is presented for the Gen GRE, you've already seen your scores and can decide then.

I think your application is strong enough to overcome a bad score though. Will you get I to CalTech or whatever? Who knows. But schools lower down the list likely won't care too much.

[Electric_displacement]

Did you guys notice that the scale was super weird? I got a 730 scaled score... but only 57% percentile. Is that something I should look into? Seems low.

Thanks.

 

I think that is pretty normal.  The ETS practice Tests list a 730 as ~60th percentile.  And in any regard, the percentiles fluctuate slightly depending on how each group does on their respective test.  

[St Andrews Lynx]

I got a 36th percentile on the Chemistry GRE. As an international applicant I think it hurt my applications at the super-competitive Ivies. But I also got admitted to several good programs a little lower down the ranking, because otherwise my application was a strong one. When it came to the diagnostic placement exams I did better than average. 

 

So, a low Chem GRE isn't the end of the world.

[MajorityMinority]

I got a 36th percentile on the Chemistry GRE. As an international applicant I think it hurt my applications at the super-competitive Ivies. But I also got admitted to several good programs a little lower down the ranking, because otherwise my application was a strong one. When it came to the diagnostic placement exams I did better than average. 

 

So, a low Chem GRE isn't the end of the world.

+1

[aberrant]

70th percentile for a domestic student is close to a perfect score. Foreigners from China, India, etc. take the exam after having learned college level chemistry from middle school-age onward, and a good many of them already have a masters as well. They ace the Chemistry GRE and throw the percentiles way off.

 

As was previously mentioned, if the average score for Harvard is 70%, that would make since since they are top students in the nation (and a few foreigners who scored 99%) to get that average. Northwestern is a respectable program and you can see their percentile is much lower than that. I imagine the same would be true of any school other than Berkeley/Caltech/MIT/Harvard/Stanford/Scripps (for organic) and even those schools would accept a domestic with a low score provided there were very strong credentials elsewhere in the application.

 

Not sure where you get this idea from, but this is what I know:

Friends of mine who were in the 2nd year college in Hong Kong (that was a 3-year college system) can easily get +90% in Chemistry GRE practice test. No master degree whatsoever, all they have completed at that point of their education was first year college (they learned the basic organic chemistry, biochemistry, physical chemistry, and inorganic/chemistry during the last two years of secondary school. Thermodynamics and OChem I would be part of the first year curriculum.)

 

Friends of mine who are in their 50s, 60s, professors from Hong Kong who did their PhDs in the U.S. -- according to them -- typically get a +95% in the chemistry GRE exam. Some have masters degree, some don't.

 

The general trend is that international applicants are expected to do well and better than the domestic applicants in subject GRE test. 70% is almost a minimum requirement, as oppose to "50% is okay" for domestic applicants (taken from my LOR at my alma mater, public university in southern california).

 

I would simply not reporting it unless the program requires my score. And, of course, you can always compensate the low score by your other stats and, more importantly, your letters, statements, and possibly publications.