Degree Prestige? MPP vs Global/International Studies

[DreamTeam03]

As I mentioned on another thread, for a lot of schools, I've been engaging in the debate about applying for an MPP/MPA, with a focus on international development, or just enrolling in the International Development/Global Policy programs at these schools.

Obviously, the choice rests a lot on personal preference and what the schools offer in each category. As such, for some schools I've applied for the MPP and others I want to apply for their ID/GP programs.

But I was wondering if the name of the degree matters. Internationally, would someone be more likely to pick up a kid from Georgetown with an MPP or an MIDP? Or does it not matter all else being equal (name of the school, grades, research papers, connections, internships, volunteer experiences)?
 

Also, would a degree in ID/GP hurt if I tried to find work doing something domestically? I imagine an MPP with a focus on ID would be valuable to international organizations and ones focused on domestic policy alike. However, would the reverse be true--would a degree in ID get domestic agencies to look down on you versus an MPP--again, all else being equal?

[NPRjunkie]

Let me guess: you have zero work experience.

Get work experience. 

[DreamTeam03]

Yep. Just taught English overseas for a bit.

[TimB]

Let me guess: you have zero work experience.

Get work experience. 

 

Good luck getting a quality job in ID with just a BA, especially if you didn't a lot of networking in undergrad or have a degree in anything other than policy/ID. I'm sure those jobs do exist, but the path into them is almost always unpaid internships which most can't afford.

 

Anyhow, economic data suggests that those who load up on credentials earlier in life gain more from their investment than those who do so later, both in terms of their financial gains, and career attainment. I'd much rather be 26 and already be one year into a master's level job than be 26 and looking at 2 years of school. If you know for sure what you want to do, and you have the cash for school, you should get it done early. 

 

Plus, as you get older things like marriage, kids, aging parents, owning a home, etc. all make it harder to pack up everything and leave for a new city to go to the best school possible. That's way easier at 23 or 24. Having terminal credentials has added value as well, because without a big expenditure question mark hanging over your future you're better able to invest. You also have a definite idea what your post-graduation earnings look like. If you can pay equity into a mortgage rather than rent, or make an extra $15k a year from your degree, even the most expensive schools pay for themselves quite quickly provided you get halfway decent aid. 

Edited December 5, 2013 by TimB

[NPRjunkie]

Good luck getting a quality job in ID with just a BA, especially if you didn't a lot of networking in undergrad or have a degree in anything other than policy/ID. I'm sure those jobs do exist, but the path into them is almost always unpaid internships which most can't afford.

 

Anyhow, economic data suggests that those who load up on credentials earlier in life gain more from their investment than those who do so later, both in terms of their financial gains, and career attainment. I'd much rather be 26 and already be one year into a master's level job than be 26 and looking at 2 years of school. If you know for sure what you want to do, and you have the cash for school, you should get it done early. 

 

Plus, as you get older things like marriage, kids, aging parents, owning a home, etc. all make it harder to pack up everything and leave for a new city to go to the best school possible. That's way easier at 23 or 24. Having terminal credentials has added value as well, because without a big expenditure question mark hanging over your future you're better able to invest. You also have a definite idea what your post-graduation earnings look like. If you can pay equity into a mortgage rather than rent, or make an extra $15k a year from your degree, even the most expensive schools pay for themselves quite quickly provided you get halfway decent aid. 

 

Good luck getting a job in ID with no work experience.

 

Years of experience evaluating/hiring (or not hiring) people with master's degrees in public policy who went to these schools straight from undergrad. with zero work experience tells me a different story. Most people who go straight from undergrad. to a public policy/international affairs master's program will be in the same position as an undergrad vying for entry level positions, most especially in ID. That's why so many of these master's students end up in entry level positions meant for people with only BAs. That is why federal internships meant for college kids are going to grad. students from GWU, American, SAIS, and more. Grad. school in this field is a false facsimile for real work experience. There are too many people with master's degrees from these schools and too little demand, especially in development. 

 

Want to get into development? Get work experience, even if it's in a non-development related field. Get that experience abroad if possible; you can even volunteer or teach abroad. Start learning a language. Then go to grad. school. It's not impossible or even hard depending on what region you want to work in (sometimes demand outstrips supply, especially with English teaching--although it's not as high as it used to be). I did this and everyone I know in development got started that way.

 

From a hiring standpoint, you are going immediately to the slush pile regardless of what your degree is in if you have a master's with no work experience. There are too many other better qualified people with that experience and with a master's degree to make it worth a glance.

[DreamTeam03]

Well, I do know foreign languages (2, pretty fluently) and I have done the teaching abroad thing. And if I don't get into a top tier grad school, I'm planning on going back.
But the reason you're saying I should get into work is the reason I feel I need a Master's degree. Everyone I know in DC is a 20-something with a Master's. Even to work for free, I need a Master's in something, at least in D.C., where I live. Like Tim said, it'll be hard for someone like me to find work in development. And I may be completely off-base here (I am pretty young and I do have limited experience), but it seems unlikely that doing another couple years of non-developmental work (e.g., teaching) will make me a more competitive candidate for a development job. They still want free labor from a Master's student because, as you say, there are a lot of them willing to just do that. 
So, as Tim was getting at, I'd rather be 25 with my Master's than just finishing my tour overseas and thinking about getting one (because, again, it's hard to get volunteer work in development without a Master's). I'd be in the same place where I am now. I'm just starting to volunteer/intern now because I was (and still am) broke and I was too busy working to do all this during college.

Of course, I could be completely wrong and I hope I am. Would love to hear what you guys think.

[NPRjunkie]

That's great you know foreign languages--it'll serve you well. And so will the fact that you taught abroad, although you haven't said for how long.

 

Your perspective on development, like most others, is already skewed: when you think of development work, you think of Development, i.e. institutions endowed with this special purpose with headquarters in various world capitals and a lot of money/studies/credentials to back up their work. If you want to work for some "prestigious" NGO (not to mention IGO) and you have to have a master's to even volunteer with them, there is something wrong with that system. Most people in "development" think this. Development work should not be conflated with the international development regime.

 

Here's some perspective, from my experience: living in a developing country for a prolonged period--no matter what you're doing--it is almost impossible not to be exposed to development work. I lived in India where thousands of domestic/local NGOs exist practically begging for volunteers. Some of these aren't by the books and some are legitimately operated; it doesn't really matter so long as they're trying to accomplish something development related and are potentially effective in doing so (some legitimately operated NGOs in India are some of the worst and some without papers do fantastic stuff). I taught English abroad and ended up doing water/environmental reclamation in my local community in my spare time, and then this expanded to surrounding communities, I got connected with other environmentally conscious people and was in the beginning phases of a creation of an NGO that now does environmental clean-up. I inadvertently got involved in development, and SAIS was sufficiently convinced it was development related. And with my development experience, I knew I didn't want to go into Development as you're conceiving it.

 

Do not limit your definition of 'development' to Development. Our current model of international development is antiquated and is continually discredited, and the institutions you likely extol are the ones most likely maligned by people who've been on the ground getting their hands dirty. If you want to work for some smaller, Western-operated NGO that has a very narrow scope, there are many and they'll value your experience abroad much more than a master's degree. The trouble is, so many people who have that experience also have a master's degree, but you may be mistaking effect for cause here. Many people accrue their development experience--living abroad, volunteering, taking the initiative to be involved--before going to graduate school. Anecdotally, I don't know anyone who hasn't spent at least a year abroad doing development-related work prior to getting into a good IDev program. There are many different ways people support themselves. I (like many others who get into development) started teaching and had a modest salary, other people might get free food/housing, many others work regular jobs at home and save money to live/volunteer abroad, other people live off the interest in their bank accounts because it is dirt cheap living in some countries. 

 

If getting an expensive master's degree to go volunteer with some celebrity touted NGO sounds great to you, I'd reconsider your priorities. If that's not what you have in mind, then I have no idea what you're talking about, because you can go volunteer and do development work in many places without a master's degree.

Maybe apply for the Peace Corps if you're American.

But here's the bottom line: with an unspecified amount of time teaching English abroad, do you think you're setting yourself up for a good IDev/MPP/int'l affairs program? If the answer is no, get more experience, and maybe take some initiative while you're abroad to do something development related. I can say, for my part and for everyone I know, it isn't hard finding something if you're remotely engaged in a local community in a developing country. But did I do Development--i.e. international development--in a way people in Delhi, DC, or wherever wouldn't look down there noses at? Maybe not, but that question is entirely irrelevant, and I had the experience that would have gotten me hired by an international development organization after it was all said and done. I had the connections; I lacked the interest.

 

In any case, that's my spiel. Take it or leave it, I won't argue about it because I already know I'm right. But good luck regardless.

Edited December 6, 2013 by NPRjunkie

[DreamTeam03]

Right. I've spent minimal time teaching abroad (6 months or so), so I admit that's not a lot of time. After reading your post, I'd also say that part of the reason I got little out of my experience (with respect to a career in dev) is that 1) I wasn't in a country where I was fluent in the language, 2) I spent relatively little time there, 3) honestly, I wasn't looking. I didn't go in with the mindset that I should use that opportunity to advance the career that I want, which--in retrospect--seems kind of silly. 
In any case, I appreciate your response and I find it very constructive (especially compared to the "get a job" post   ). You've offered different opportunities for me to explore and lines of thought to pursue and I'll weigh that information to hopefully figure something that works for me. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[TimB]

Well, I'll defer to those with more experience specific to ID, which I am not familiar with. 

 

I don't know to what extent ID/PP programs are able to manipulate their employment stats, but it does seem like top programs are placing almost every graduate in a position within 12 months. Given the 51% unemployment or underemployment rate for recent bachelor's graduates (25 and under) reported by as recently as 2012, I can see the appeal of those odds.

 

Plus, I'd rather be in school now, in a down labor market, than right as things finally take off again; of course it's anyone's guess when that will be. If you're abroad two years, and in school for another two you might be getting out just as the economy stops being anemic. 

 

I'm wondering, since you say there is a surplus of ID masters graduates, do you know if the market is similar to law, where the vast majority of professionals are Boomers nearing retirement, or is it simply too many younger people trying to get into too small a field? I feel bad for recent law grads, but I figure they at least have a clock to wait out before lots of jobs begin to open up. 

 

But getting back to the original question: I would imagine an MPP, with it's more broad focus, would better prepare you for domestic work, no idea if it would make a difference in getting employment though.

Edited December 6, 2013 by TimB