Does this LOR contain enough?

[orthogonalcode]

I am applying to M.S./M.A. programs in secondary education (specifically mathematics). I opted to get letters from my first college math professor (he is the reason I decided to major in mathematics), my boss at the private tutoring company I work for, and my undergraduate thesis advisor. I actually graduate in a few days with my MS in mathematics and statistics but opted not to get any letters from professors here, as I never had a professor more than once and did not feel that they would know me well enough to decide whether or not I would be a great educator. My concern rests in that decision, as well as in the length of my first college math professor's LOR length. It is as follows:

 

 

"To Whom This May Concern:

 

Orthogonalcode was a student of mine in Calculus 1 during the spring 2007 semester and in Calculus 2 during the fall 2007 semester. She was driven to succeed in both of those classes, and she succeeded impressively. Orthogonalcode was a little shy about asking questions in class, but she was relentless about getting them answered after class. She attended my office hours at least once a week. She never procrastinated. If she had a question, she made sure it was cleared up within a day or two. Her work was always neatly organized and complete. I have been teaching at the post-secondary level for over 30 years, and I cannot remember another student who put more care and effort in their work.

 

From my experience as her instructor, I am convinced that Orthogonalcode will succeed in any course of study she elects. However, I am glad she is interested in mathematics education. She is the kind of person we need in our mathematics classrooms.

 

Sincerely,

 

Brilliant professor"

 

 

When I first read it, I was really happy with it. However, upon reading posts on this forum, I feel it may not be specific enough. Thoughts?

[TakeruK]

I think this is a fine letter for someone who was your instructor 6 years ago! If you think it is missing something (e.g. you wanted them to mention a specific detail or event) then it would probably be okay to remind them about it, assuming that they showed you this LOR for approval. In your shoes, I would be really happy that a professor that is significant to me (as he is the reason you decided to choose your major) would remember me so well and have such great things to say about me, even 6 years later. But the rest of this post will be written from what I think a grad admission committee might think.

 

For science research fields, I would say that letters from instructors aren't that helpful, but maybe things are different when applying to science education fields. But this is an example of the reason why people say that a "did well in class" letter might sound nice but ultimately may not convey much detail. If you choose to go with this letter, then I would suggest think about what else could have been added in the letter. If there isn't anything else, then I would stop worrying about it and be happy about it.

 

However, I would also consider using a different letter. Do you have any research supervisors at all during your MS or was it just coursework? If so, I would go with the research supervisors. If not, I might even get a letter from someone who taught you during your MS instead of your first year of college. Even though they only taught you for one semester instead of two, they are much more recent and can talk about how you handle graduate level coursework. Also, in my experience, my graduate level professors knew me much better than my undergraduate professors, even if we only interacted in the classroom/office hours. I feel that a graduate school would be more interested in what your graduate professors thought of you rather than your undergraduate professor from 2007.

 

Finally, this last part might be plain wrong due to what different education degrees might mean in my area of Canada vs. the US. So, to me, a MS/MA in secondary education is not a degree program that trains you to be a teacher at the secondary school level. To me, a Bachelor of Education (BEd; which students take after completing a BA or BS) is the degree that trains you to be a secondary school teacher, while an MA/MS in secondary education is a research based degree in pedagogy and a Master of Education is further professional development for someone who is already trained (and potentially already practicing) as a primary/secondary school teacher. So, if I understood your intended graduate program correctly, then I am not sure if a reference letter from your private tutoring company boss is relevant. I might be completely wrong about what you are applying to though -- so just ignore this last paragraph if you are actually applying to a program that will train you to be a secondary school teacher. 

[orthogonalcode]

I think this is a fine letter for someone who was your instructor 6 years ago! If you think it is missing something (e.g. you wanted them to mention a specific detail or event) then it would probably be okay to remind them about it, assuming that they showed you this LOR for approval. In your shoes, I would be really happy that a professor that is significant to me (as he is the reason you decided to choose your major) would remember me so well and have such great things to say about me, even 6 years later. But the rest of this post will be written from what I think a grad admission committee might think.

For science research fields, I would say that letters from instructors aren't that helpful, but maybe things are different when applying to science education fields. But this is an example of the reason why people say that a "did well in class" letter might sound nice but ultimately may not convey much detail. If you choose to go with this letter, then I would suggest think about what else could have been added in the letter. If there isn't anything else, then I would stop worrying about it and be happy about it.

However, I would also consider using a different letter. Do you have any research supervisors at all during your MS or was it just coursework? If so, I would go with the research supervisors. If not, I might even get a letter from someone who taught you during your MS instead of your first year of college. Even though they only taught you for one semester instead of two, they are much more recent and can talk about how you handle graduate level coursework. Also, in my experience, my graduate level professors knew me much better than my undergraduate professors, even if we only interacted in the classroom/office hours. I feel that a graduate school would be more interested in what your graduate professors thought of you rather than your undergraduate professor from 2007.

Finally, this last part might be plain wrong due to what different education degrees might mean in my area of Canada vs. the US. So, to me, a MS/MA in secondary education is not a degree program that trains you to be a teacher at the secondary school level. To me, a Bachelor of Education (BEd; which students take after completing a BA or BS) is the degree that trains you to be a secondary school teacher, while an MA/MS in secondary education is a research based degree in pedagogy and a Master of Education is further professional development for someone who is already trained (and potentially already practicing) as a primary/secondary school teacher. So, if I understood your intended graduate program correctly, then I am not sure if a reference letter from your private tutoring company boss is relevant. I might be completely wrong about what you are applying to though -- so just ignore this last paragraph if you are actually applying to a program that will train you to be a secondary school teacher.

The program is actually designed for individuals who want to get certified. There are other programs for people who already teach but want to get a M.Ed or something along those lines. Edited December 9, 2013 by orthogonalcode

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

If you're applying to a cert program, this is certainly fine. The lines: "I cannot remember another student who put more care and effort in their work" and "She is the kind of person we need in our mathematics classrooms" are not the types of things every professor writes for every student - they'd be compromising how serious they're taken. He could have wrote "Few other students put so much care and effort in their work," but he wrote "I cannot remember another student..."

 

You aren't applying to a Ph.D. program here. I think you'll be fine - and I think had you been applying to a Ph.D. program, he'd have written more. He certainly indicates as much in this short letter.

[orthogonalcode]

If you're applying to a cert program, this is certainly fine. The lines: "I cannot remember another student who put more care and effort in their work" and "She is the kind of person we need in our mathematics classrooms" are not the types of things every professor writes for every student - they'd be compromising how serious they're taken. He could have wrote "Few other students put so much care and effort in their work," but he wrote "I cannot remember another student..."

You aren't applying to a Ph.D. program here. I think you'll be fine - and I think had you been applying to a Ph.D. program, he'd have written more. He certainly indicates as much in this short letter.

I would certainly agree, but my dream school is Northwestern, which is very competitive! Thanks for your feedback

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

I would certainly agree, but my dream school is Northwestern, which is very competitive! Thanks for your feedback

 

Yes and no. I don't think education MA/MS programs are comparatively competitive (I say this from experience - though I'm not a teacher, PM if you want). I mean, yes you're going to have to be exceptional to get into Northwestern's program, but I don't think that letter is holding you back. 

[TakeMyCoffeeBlack]

Just to clarify: I'm not suggesting that these programs accept duds and that you aren't competing with people. But even top 20 programs have admissions rates of 50%-70%. 

[orthogonalcode]

Yes and no. I don't think education MA/MS programs are comparatively competitive (I say this from experience - though I'm not a teacher, PM if you want). I mean, yes you're going to have to be exceptional to get into Northwestern's program, but I don't think that letter is holding you back.

I have heard this and am definitely thankful for it!