Monadology Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Perpetualapplicant gave some really good advice. I can confirm that because this is also my fifth round of applications and I also ended up going through an MA program, though my timeline was a little different. (Interestingly, we both have offers from Riverside) Edited February 9, 2014 by Monadology PerpetualApplicant No More 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualApplicant No More Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 (edited) Perpetual's advice is stellar! It's understandable that a lot of applicants are leery of MAs becoming necessities, but if you do get shut out and want to improve your chances of getting into a quality PhD program (not to mention developing a lot as a philosopher), an MA program is ideal. One of the more under-rated aspects of an MA, in my opinion, is that you have an entirely new set of faculty to learn from and work with. The make-up of my undergrad and MA departments was quite different, and I think I benefitted a lot from this diversity. Thanks! I think you raise an important point here in your parenthetical statement about developing as a philosopher. Since this forum is about grad admisisons per se, I couched my statements in those terms. But the best--and, arguably, only--reason to continue in graduate education at all, be it at the M.A. or Ph.D. level is because you love philosophy and want to do more of it. Two points. First, I don't mean to be cynical, but if the work of academic philosophy is not more intrinsically rewarding to you than other lines of work, then you can take your skills, apply them to another profession such as law or programming, and have a much more secure career where you make much more money for at most the same amount--and likely less--work. If philosophy isn't special to you, then it seems crazy *not* to do these things. Second, and more to the point of the discussion, the best way to improve your application is to keep doing philosophy and work on becoming a better philosopher. As Schwitzgebel says in his blog regarding writing samples: "the sample must be clearly written and show a certain amount of philosophical maturity. I can't say much about how to achieve these things other than to be a good writer and philosophically mature. I think they're hard to fake." I think this point applies to letters and grades as well: you will do better, and get better letters, if you are more 'philosophically mature.' And increasing your philosophical maturity in this sense is precisely the goal of these M.A. programs--it is in exactly this way that they improve your applications (in addition to the advice they give you on how to form it). EDIT: It is really strange quoting Schwitzgebel: in the past few days, he has gone from being a guy whose blog and papers I occasionally read to the frontrunner for being my dissertation adviser. Edited February 9, 2014 by perpetualapplicant GrammaticalFiction 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualApplicant No More Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Perpetualapplicant gave some really good advice. I can confirm that because this is also my fifth round of applications and I also ended up going through an MA program, though my timeline was a little different. (Interestingly, we both have offers from Riverside) Good to know I'm not the only one! And, as someone who knows where you're coming from, congratulations! I would say the Riverside admissions are a coincidence, but it's at least plausible that they aren't. I've heard secondhand (read: to be taken with a large grain of salt) that Riverside and Maryland in particular are more forgiving of applicants' non-traditional backgrounds than many other committees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrammaticalFiction Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Congrats to the Oregon acceptances! Even Sunday isn't sacred during grad season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monadology Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Good to know I'm not the only one! And, as someone who knows where you're coming from, congratulations! I would say the Riverside admissions are a coincidence, but it's at least plausible that they aren't. I've heard secondhand (read: to be taken with a large grain of salt) that Riverside and Maryland in particular are more forgiving of applicants' non-traditional backgrounds than many other committees. Thanks! Congrats to you as well! They may very well be a coincidence. Their attitudes towards non-traditional applicants may be what was suggested to you, I remember they made initial offers to a few UWM students last year. I know in my case fit is also almost certainly a factor, Riverside is almost a perfect fit for me. Congrats to the Oregon acceptances as well as the new U Chicago and UCR acceptances! Edited February 10, 2014 by Monadology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualApplicant No More Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Thanks! Congrats to you as well! They may very well be a coincidence. Their attitudes towards non-traditional applicants may be what was suggested to you, I remember they made initial offers to a few UWM students last year. I know in my case fit is also almost certainly a factor, Riverside is almost a perfect fit for me. Congrats to the Oregon acceptances as well as the new U Chicago and UCR acceptances! I think you're absolutely right that fit is crucial. Because this discussion is comprised of applicants with differing interests--and with different levels of clarity regarding their interests--the discussion often mentions only the 'objective' factors involved in applications. And this is truly unfortunate: fit is as important as anything. Further, the putatively objective factors aren't necessarily objective: what might be a brilliant writing sample to one committee might well be boring to another, some committees might know your letter writers better than others, etc. UCR is definitely a fantastic fit for me: I only applied this round to places where I could put together a 'dream team' dissertation committee (at Riverside, it'd be Schwitzgebel, Fischer and Jaworska), and my writing sample was on reasons-responsiveness and moral psychology. Edited February 10, 2014 by perpetualapplicant Monadology 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanHendon Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Platonist, I really really feel for you, and I want to give you some hope and advice. But the hope isn't the generic "keep hanging in there! it'll happen any day now" sort. I'm sorry to say, but you are probably correct that you are being shut out. What I want to say is that if you love philosophy and really want to do this, then getting shut out is a roadblock, not a death blow. I should know: this round is my *fifth time* applying for Ph.D. programs. I have been shut out four times before (hence my handle). But I now have an offer of admission with full funding (I think they even gave me an extra year!), and will be moving on to my Ph.D. next year. First, I applied out of undergrad, and did not get in to any Ph.D. programs, but did get in to a M.A. program at a Leiter-Ranked Ph.D. school. However, I wasn't really ready to do grad work at that point, and I struggled. I didn't get into any Ph.D. programs coming out of there. I took a few years off, and, at risk of oversimplifying, I grew up. So I started re-applying, but I really needed to prove that I was a different student than I had been in my first MA program. I took some classes as a non-degree student at the local PGR ranked Ph.D. program, but that still didn't work. (I should add that each time, I checked this site as obsessively as you seem to be). But then I enrolled for a second MA (most places, it turns out, let you do that!). And that worked! I'm hardly cleaning up in admissions--I think my bad MA grades from my first program will always hurt me a bit--but who cares? I am in, and I can compete for the next level (jobs) with people on an even playing field (no one will care about my grades, let alone those from years ago, when I am a job candidate!). Great post, really great advice and exactly what I needed to hear, even though I'm not applying any time soon. I just started my second MA, and although my situation differs quite a bit from yours (I did an undergrad and MSc in Political Science), it's still somewhat reassuring that bad grades from a previous study do not necessarily need to kill off any chance for grad school applications, as long as you're able to show significant improvement. I wish I could travel back in time and punch myself in my stupid, smug face, because I was such a lazy wanker (and generally a terrible student) during my PolSci days, especially during my undergrad. Ah well, what's done is done. PerpetualApplicant No More and Monadology 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHumeDominates Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Platonist, I really really feel for you, and I want to give you some hope and advice. But the hope isn't the generic "keep hanging in there! it'll happen any day now" sort. I'm sorry to say, but you are probably correct that you are being shut out. What I want to say is that if you love philosophy and really want to do this, then getting shut out is a roadblock, not a death blow. I should know: this round is my *fifth time* applying for Ph.D. programs. I have been shut out four times before (hence my handle). But I now have an offer of admission with full funding (I think they even gave me an extra year!), and will be moving on to my Ph.D. next year. First, I applied out of undergrad, and did not get in to any Ph.D. programs, but did get in to a M.A. program at a Leiter-Ranked Ph.D. school. However, I wasn't really ready to do grad work at that point, and I struggled. I didn't get into any Ph.D. programs coming out of there. I took a few years off, and, at risk of oversimplifying, I grew up. So I started re-applying, but I really needed to prove that I was a different student than I had been in my first MA program. I took some classes as a non-degree student at the local PGR ranked Ph.D. program, but that still didn't work. (I should add that each time, I checked this site as obsessively as you seem to be). But then I enrolled for a second MA (most places, it turns out, let you do that!). And that worked! I'm hardly cleaning up in admissions--I think my bad MA grades from my first program will always hurt me a bit--but who cares? I am in, and I can compete for the next level (jobs) with people on an even playing field (no one will care about my grades, let alone those from years ago, when I am a job candidate!). Now, I understand my situation is not your own. It seems like you are coming straight out of undergrad. What I would hope that you (and others being shut out) would take from my story is that you can always improve your application, and what you should do is simply figure out the best way to do that, and then get right to it. It is, I gather, in this vein that you are asking for statements and writing samples. I have (IMO) a better suggestion: look into a M.A. program. Right now. Many of the top ten MA programs are still taking applications (I know that Brandeis, GSU, SFSU and UMSL are, some others may be as well). These programs exist to fix deficiencies in your application, and they will give you the guidance you need to do so. It sounds like you are in a place where you know you need to improve your app, but are unsure how to do so. They will tell you. Moreover, and possibly more importantly, their letters will count more than those from faculty at schools that generally do not produce Ph.D. applicants simply because the admissions committees are familiar with those letter-writers as letter-writers. Did I miss something? Why do you think Platonist is probably being shut out? (I really must have missed something (s)he said on an earlier page of this thread.) It's February 9th ... ?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vardan_Mkhitaryan Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Congrats to the Virginia acceptance Must be nice to get such an email from Paul Humphreys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualApplicant No More Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Did I miss something? Why do you think Platonist is probably being shut out? (I really must have missed something (s)he said on an earlier page of this thread.) It's February 9th ... ?!?! Two points: First, Platonist said that all but two of his/her programs had released both offers and wait-lists. That was my evidentiary basis. Second, having sat around holding out hope (I was active on the wait-list at one school right up until April 15 last year), I think it's better to assume that you are not in until you hear otherwise, and, subsequently, it's better to work at laying out plans for re-applying than to sit there oscillating between hope and despair. Of course, this is easier said than done. Edited February 10, 2014 by perpetualapplicant wandajune 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnothi_Seauton Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Hey, guys. I'll claim this evening's UVA acceptance. The email was very nice. No indication of whether others are going out soon, but the email was personalized enough (Professor Humphreys wanted to schedule a call) that I would expect more are coming in the next few days. Fingers crossed for the others who applied! MattDest and AquinasDuo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monadology Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Hey, guys. I'll claim this evening's UVA acceptance. The email was very nice. No indication of whether others are going out soon, but the email was personalized enough (Professor Humphreys wanted to schedule a call) that I would expect more are coming in the next few days. Fingers crossed for the others who applied! Congratulations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnothi_Seauton Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Thanks, Monadology! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idol.chatter Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Hey, I know I'm a bit behind on this, but my desperation is growing and I figured I would ask - but has anyone claimed the Vanderbilt acceptances, and if so, did they say anything in the e-mail/phone call about wait lists, number of applicants, future acceptance notification, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHumeDominates Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Two points: First, Platonist said that all but two of his/her programs had released both offers and wait-lists. That was my evidentiary basis. Second, having sat around holding out hope (I was active on the wait-list at one school right up until April 15 last year), I think it's better to assume that you are not in until you hear otherwise, and, subsequently, it's better to work at laying out plans for re-applying than to sit there oscillating between hope and despair. Of course, this is easier said than done. I had missed the first thing. Still, some programs have idiosyncratic admissions processes. So, just because some acceptances and wait lists have gone out from School X doesn't mean that they all have, especially since it's only February 9th. Of course, I can understand Platonist's concern. There are ten or eleven programs to which I applied that haven't sent out both acceptances and wait lists. If that number were two, I'd be even less psychologically stable than I am now (which is saying something). But I think I would be reassured to hear the point about idiosyncratic admissions processes. We know that ianfaircloud has had trouble predicting when certain schools would release their first decisions (e.g., Chicago, Michigan). Just think of all the other things related to the admissions process that we can't easily predict. (By the way, I adore ianfaircloud's blog. I am in no way criticizing it.) Your second point seems to apply to anyone who hasn't yet been accepted somehwere, however, not to Platonist in particular. Anyway, not trying to be argumentative really. Just think that you're being a tad too presumptuous. Edited February 10, 2014 by DHumeDominates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualApplicant No More Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Your second point seems to apply to anyone who hasn't yet been accepted somehwere, however, not to Platonist in particular. Anyway, not trying to be argumentative really. Just think that you're being a tad too presumptuous. Fair enough. I found, from my personal experience, that doing more work to prepare myself for next year after I had been shut out in the first round benefitted both my next application and my occurrent psychological state. So, taking such an attitude helped me. And, given how much I can relate to Platonist's state of mind, I thought that doing so might help him/her as well. But I didn't mean to imply that doing so would categorically be best for everyone who has not gotten in. Edited February 10, 2014 by perpetualapplicant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquinasDuo Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) Perpetualapplicant gave some really good advice. I can confirm that because this is also my fifth round of applications and I also ended up going through an MA program, though my timeline was a little different. (Interestingly, we both have offers from Riverside) Oh! Now I see. Since it is only my fourth time through (also now having a masters) Riverside just looked at my application and thought that I needed to put in more dues. Fair enough! ;-) Congrats to all of the acceptances! Seems the ol' Grad Cafe crew are having a good year this time around. Edited February 10, 2014 by AquinasDuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquinasDuo Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Separately, the best way for anyone to share their writing sample with anyone else would be for the author to post it (as a work in progress if they'd like) to a page like Academia, LinkedIn, or a blog. This way there is a public record of ownership with (should it be needed) records of when, where, any by whom it was uploaded. Alternatively, I suggest drop box as it also maintains records of when, where, any by whom it was uploaded. This way if the paper is claimed by another for anything of significance, the author can easily prove ownership. This should remove any concerns of plagiarism or reproduction in any worthwhile sphere. Canis and mrs_doubtfire 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHumeDominates Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 No offense dudes, but lurking on this site everyday is just making me more anxious. I'm going away until I hear, then I'll post here for the dude who keeps stats and stuff on his blog. Good luck to all. Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humean_skeptic Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 There is an NYU PhD offer posted, as of a few hours ago. Is it legit? Seems both early (very early for NYU) and an odd time, but if it's legit then congrats to that lucky philosopher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgswaim Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Congrats indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnothi_Seauton Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 Big week ahead! Good luck to everyone here! DHumeDominates 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophe Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 (edited) There is an NYU PhD offer posted, as of a few hours ago. Is it legit? Seems both early (very early for NYU) and an odd time, but if it's legit then congrats to that lucky philosopher. I'm wondering about this as well. Anyone want to claim it? Otherwise, seems very early and I probably won't give it much weight until I see a second post. Edited February 10, 2014 by philosophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianfaircloud Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 I'm wondering about this as well. Anyone want to claim it? Otherwise, seems very early and I probably won't give it much weight until I see a second post. Agreed. This looks very unlikely. First, NYU releases results on March 1 (last two years in a row). Second, as a higher ranked school, NYU is less likely to release early results. Three, this post wasn't up as of midnight Eastern time last night. I find it hard to believe that someone would be admitted to the top school and fail to post about it until after midnight-- and then leave no comments. It's POSSIBLE but UNLIKELY that this is a legit post. Vardan_Mkhitaryan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVineyard Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 It wasn't posted at 2AM but was up by 7:30AM. Someone got accepted by phone between the hours of 2AM-7:30AM Eastern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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