Oxford Bphil versus St. Andrews MLitt

[bob311]

First I would like to say hello. I am brand new as a poster but I have been checking this forum recently after discovering it on another forum. 

 

Basically, I have a comparison question and a few other questions about the Oxford Bphil if anyone can help? I will provide enough general background on myself. 

 

How do the programs compare? I know on the Leiter report and all the UK rankings that Oxford is by and large the overall #1, with St. Andrews having a top 2-3 UK ranking in grad philosophy. How does St. Andrews stack up overall in the world, especially the US? 

 

Also, what have people's experiences been in getting accepted to the Oxford Bphil/rejected? I have a full acceptance and already confirmed a place for the St. Andrews MLitt back on Thanksgiving among others detailed below. 

 

A little on me to help:

 

To begin, I did not know if I wanted to study philosophy as a Master's degree. I planned on going to law school and that was it. It was only back in August I made the decision to at least get a Master's degree for a year or two and have options. This past summer I had the opportunity to study at Oxford and spend the summer researching with some really top academics in philosophy and theology. I did not think I would pursue philosophy initially because I was a political science major, and just happened to add philosophy as my second major. I have a good overall GPA, a 3.4, and a 3.65 philosophy GPA (my college is one of a handful in the USA to use a harsh GPA scale. No A+ 4.3 kinda stuff, a B+ is a 3.2, etc). No GRE's as the UK schools didn't require it. I attend a small, highly ranked (not top 25, but close) liberal arts college where I am an all american athlete, captain, and have helped win a lot of games and become really highly ranked (talking top 5 every year) along with a bunch of NCAA appearances. I also have founded and run a charity by myself that is growing significantly. On the philosophy front, I am a junior research fellow at two institutes, and had the research experience at Oxford. My college requires a thesis to graduate and I have written it on a topic in political theory. Along with my thesis, I have had 4 articles set out for publication, with one officially published in an anthology. Also my writing sample is, I believe very strong, last time I heard it will be published in a top journal sooner rather than later. My areas of interest are in political theory, philosophy of religion, philosophy of science and metaphysics. 

 

Basically I am curious how my changes at the Oxford Bphil are? Of the 9 schools I applied to (all in the UK, for personal reasons- want to travel, experience something new, history, blah blah blah) I got into all 8 plus waiting on Oxford- St. Andrews (Mlitt), Edinburgh (MSc), Glasgow (MA), Aberdeen (Mlitt and a large scholarship), Durham (MA), Bristol (MA and scholarship), King's College (MA), and Heythrop College (MA in two separate degree tracks). 

 

I will be attending St. Andrews if it doesn't work out at Oxford, so either way I am very happy. 

 

Thank you for reading this novel and helping. 

Edited February 9, 2014 by bob311

[Table]

How do the programs compare? I know on the Leiter report and all the UK rankings that Oxford is by and large the overall #1, with St. Andrews having a top 2-3 UK ranking in grad philosophy. How does St. Andrews stack up overall in the world, especially the US? 

 

I have no relevant personal experience here at all, but Leiter does have combined English-speaking-world faculty rankings (scroll down), which put Oxford at 2 and St. Andrews at 26. 

[RookIV]

I'm at Oxford. but can't compare it to St. Andrews because I have never been there. I'm not really sure what you're asking for though...

 

I will say that despite its reputation, it is much easier to be accepted into Oxford than to other top ranked programs because the faculty at Oxford know that many of their top choices will be admitted to American schools as well and American schools offer much much more funding than Oxford can. Really, the funding situation at Oxford is quite terrible, and I think that in the long run it is going to hurt the department because they will not be able to continue to attract the best students without offering them funding. 

 

Oxford is very different than any US program. Much more independent. Your experience is really what you make of it. 

 

Insanely expensive to live here. 

[sebgrebe]

I have done the St Andrews MLitt. The comparison with the Oxford BPhil is pretty straightforward: The BPhil is clearly more prestigious and will provide you with better chances to get into a PhD program afterwards. In Oxford you have about 20 students per year, in St Andrews 35-40. The quality of the admitted students to Oxford is higher than of those admitted to St Andrews.

 

That said, St Andrews is still a good second-choice and a decent amount of people go on to do a PhD (hard to give exact numbers. I would say 10-15 in my year, most of them at UK departments). I would say it's the best choice out of the programmes you have been admitted to so far in general. Things might look different if you look at your particular interests and you want to compare departments with respect to this. However, most of your interests seem to be covered quite well: there is a good political philosophy course taught by Cruft and Saunders (they are based in Stirling), there's usually a course in philosophy of religion (either taught by Haldane or Broadie, both internationally renowned scholars in their field) and Hawley usually teaches the metaphysics course (she's one of the best known philosophers of time, AFAIK). Philosophy of science is not taught on the MLitt.

 

Let me know if you have more questions.

Edited February 10, 2014 by sebgrebe

[bob311]

I have done the St Andrews MLitt. The comparison with the Oxford BPhil is pretty straightforward: The BPhil is clearly more prestigious and will provide you with better chances to get into a PhD program afterwards. In Oxford you have about 20 students per year, in St Andrews 35-40. The quality of the admitted students to Oxford is higher than of those admitted to St Andrews.

 

That said, St Andrews is still a good second-choice and a decent amount of people go on to do a PhD (hard to give exact numbers. I would say 10-15 in my year, most of them at UK departments). I would say it's the best choice out of the programmes you have been admitted to so far in general. Things might look different if you look at your particular interests and you want to compare departments with respect to this. However, most of your interests seem to be covered quite well: there is a good political philosophy course taught by Cruft and Saunders (they are based in Stirling), there's usually a course in philosophy of religion (either taught by Haldane or Broadie, both internationally renowned scholars in their field) and Hawley usually teaches the metaphysics course (she's one of the best known philosophers of time, AFAIK). Philosophy of science is not taught on the MLitt.

 

Let me know if you have more questions.

 

Actually I have just a few if you do not mind. How was your time at St. Andrews academically, ie rewarding, did you go on to a phd, etc? Also, how was the town and housing? I have not actually had the opportunity to go to St. Andrews previously and am concerned about the housing situation for postgraduates?

 

Thanks a ton. 

 

 

 

I'm at Oxford. but can't compare it to St. Andrews because I have never been there. I'm not really sure what you're asking for though...

 

I will say that despite its reputation, it is much easier to be accepted into Oxford than to other top ranked programs because the faculty at Oxford know that many of their top choices will be admitted to American schools as well and American schools offer much much more funding than Oxford can. Really, the funding situation at Oxford is quite terrible, and I think that in the long run it is going to hurt the department because they will not be able to continue to attract the best students without offering them funding. 

 

Oxford is very different than any US program. Much more independent. Your experience is really what you make of it. 

 

Insanely expensive to live here. 

 

Thanks for the answer. If you do not mind, how is your experience going at Oxford on the same kind of lines I asked above to sebgrebe? Thanks

[RookIV]

 

 

 

Thanks for the answer. If you do not mind, how is your experience going at Oxford on the same kind of lines I asked above to sebgrebe? Thanks

 

How rewarding the experience is depends on 1) who your supervisor is, 2) how well you are able to manage your work. There is so much going on at Oxford. More classes/lectures/seminars that will interest you than you could ever hope to attend. You are free to attend whatever you want, but you must leave yourself sufficient to time produce high quality research material. Standards in general are quite high. Some supervisors are great and very helpful, some are not. Only come to Oxford if you are comfortable with the tutorial system and what it entails (or if you merely want to use is as a springboard to a phd, which many students do).

 

Housing is ridiculously expensive here. I feel very bad for the local residents. Housing options depend on which college you attend. Some are better and more plentiful than others. St. John's College, e.g., is the richest college and heavily subsidizes housing, so you would be well off to live at St. John's. Many of the smaller colleges cannot offer subsidies, and some can't even offer housing and students have to apply through the University or simply find their own place. I would say the majority of first year graduate students in philosophy have housing either through a college or the university, but that is only based on who I have met. I live in my college in a nice quiet flat. I am happy with it, but it is probably at 60% more than what a paid in Berkeley, and I get a lot less for my money frankly. Money is a big issue here. Many of the department's best students are unfunded. 

 

As for the town itself, it really depends on the personality. Many people love Oxford (the town), many people don't. Lot's of pubs here. It's basically a university town that exploded in growth and population (and traffic). So there is much much more to do here than in Cambridge, but you pay for it with loads of cars, noise, and stupid chain stores/restaurants. Your college placement doesn't make a difference academically speaking, just socially and financially speaking. 

[bob311]

How rewarding the experience is depends on 1) who your supervisor is, 2) how well you are able to manage your work. There is so much going on at Oxford. More classes/lectures/seminars that will interest you than you could ever hope to attend. You are free to attend whatever you want, but you must leave yourself sufficient to time produce high quality research material. Standards in general are quite high. Some supervisors are great and very helpful, some are not. Only come to Oxford if you are comfortable with the tutorial system and what it entails (or if you merely want to use is as a springboard to a phd, which many students do).

 

Housing is ridiculously expensive here. I feel very bad for the local residents. Housing options depend on which college you attend. Some are better and more plentiful than others. St. John's College, e.g., is the richest college and heavily subsidizes housing, so you would be well off to live at St. John's. Many of the smaller colleges cannot offer subsidies, and some can't even offer housing and students have to apply through the University or simply find their own place. I would say the majority of first year graduate students in philosophy have housing either through a college or the university, but that is only based on who I have met. I live in my college in a nice quiet flat. I am happy with it, but it is probably at 60% more than what a paid in Berkeley, and I get a lot less for my money frankly. Money is a big issue here.

Your college placement doesn't make a difference academically speaking, just socially and financially speaking.

Just out of curiously, what college did you apply for/ get placed in? Deciding which college to apply to was difficult but i chose Harris Manchester because they have housing for grad students on sight. I have experience with the tutorial system after spending the summer at oriel so that isn't really a concern, and I tend to be very independent in my research and work anyway. I am hoping my past experience working with a number of the faculty does help my chances of admittance though. Hopefully it works out.

[sebgrebe]

Actually I have just a few if you do not mind. How was your time at St. Andrews academically, ie rewarding, did you go on to a phd, etc? Also, how was the town and housing? I have not actually had the opportunity to go to St. Andrews previously and am concerned about the housing situation for postgraduates?

 

Thanks a ton. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the answer. If you do not mind, how is your experience going at Oxford on the same kind of lines I asked above to sebgrebe? Thanks

 

 

Sure thing. Academic experience: all in all, it was great. The programme is quite intense. When I was doing the programme, you had to write twelve 3,500 words papers for 6 courses + a 15,000 words dissertation in 12 months. They lowered the work load a bit, but it's still stressful. You do a lot of different courses - so it's broader than for example the Cambridge MPhil where you only do three courses, but it;s less research focused. I liked this since it gave me the opportunity to look into stuff I hadn't done yet, and which I eventually ended up doing my PhD thesis on. I stayed here for my PhD and am very happy with it. Of the 9-10 people who went on to do a PhD (not 15 as I said above), 5 stayed in St Andrews to do their PhD.

 

Housing situation: there are halls just for postgrads. If possible, you should rather go into private accommodation since student accommodation is either horrible or expensive (£600/month). For a room in private accommodation be prepared to pay around £400/month.

 

Town: St Andrews is lovely, directly located at the sea. However, it's tiny: 15,000 people.