Young Biomed/Bio PhD Applicant - Please Give Advice

[blinchik]

Hello!

 

I just wanted to see if anyone on here had some advice regarding young applicants for Biomedical Sciences/Biology PhD Programs that may be in a similar situation.

 

In short: I will be graduating college in 3 years as opposed to the usual due to financial constraints.  I will be 20 when I graduate, and just shy of 21 if (hopefully when) I begin at a Bio/Biomed PhD program during fall of 2015

 

In terms of stats/facts:

I attend a large private research university

My GPA is currently 3.8+ (top 2-3% of class, Honors Program and Presidential Scholarship recipient)

My major GPA is 3.7

My GRE scores are 158Q (72%), 165V (95%), and 5.5W (97%) (combined 88%)

I have conducted research as a summer researcher at NIH in a virology lab consecutively for the past two summers, and have been invited back for the upcoming summer.  I may intern instead at a large biotech company that specializes in sequencing viruses, but I do not know yet.

I have conducted microbiological/molecular biological research for over a year with my research mentor at my uni, who is funded in part by the university and in part by the NSF and NIH. I intend to continue this research until I graduate and hopefully get my name in a publication.

 

My faculty advisor, research mentor, and the director of my biomedical sciences program told me that given my effort in uni, my age shouldn't be too much a problem.  I am just curious as to whether anyone on here knows anyone/is anyone who is somewhat younger than average and got into a Bio/Biomed PhD program. I am compiling a list of schools that I potentially will apply to, but I did not see anything on their websites regarding age.  I would very much appreciate any and all guidance I could get concerning this matter - I particularly would appreciate knowing whether or not programs would view me as an unprepared candidate on the basis of my age and if they would view my graduating early as a detriment to my application.

 

I have tried to make the most of my undergraduate experience, but obviously having one fewer year to pull my grades up and conduct research didn't help my CV. So, with all that said, does anyone on here have any thoughts regarding my situation?

Edited February 12, 2014 by blinchik

[sharonnyc]

Hi blinchik, I know this isn't your specific question -- you are asking whether programs would not want to take you based on your age -- but as someone who has a few more years of life behind her than you, I just want to point out that you should ask yourself what your rush is.  Going straight to grad school might be a good idea.  On the other hand, working for a few years and being able to enjoy your life might be really, really great.  I had to work full-time during most of my college experience, at the same time as I was trying to get the grades to get into medical school.  It worked out, but there was a huge cost to pay; I didn't get to go out and socialize, go to parties, etc the way others did.  I worked for 2 years before starting medical school and am so glad that I did.  I was able to save a little bit of money (by living very frugally, I in fact saved enough to backpack in South America for 2 months before starting medical school!) and also got to enjoy weekends off for the first time since probably middle school!  (I haven't had weekends off since then...and I miss it!)  You won't have your evenings/weekends to yourself in graduate school, why not give yourself a little bit of rest?  It will almost certainly make you more prepared for graduate school, will give you the chance to work somewhere that will improve your grad school application (though it doesn't look like you really need that), and you won't end up being one of those people who at 25 or 26 has never had a real job (when you're looking for a post-doc or other employment later, it starts to look bad when you are perceived as a perpetual student with no 'life experience' because there is a question about how you will react when you are in a different environment).

 

Just some food for thought.  Good luck!

[blinchik]

Hi sharonnyc, first off, I just wanted to say I really appreciate your longer response (or really, any response at all).

 

For me, I guess the rush is that I really want to conduct research. I have now been researching continuously for over a year and a half and I really love it. I love that every time you come into the lab, even if your experiment didn't proceed exactly as you might have wanted it to (or outright failed), there's a type of excitement that comes with doing something slightly different every day, and knowing that even if you're only getting at the most minuscule piece of the puzzle, one day someone will put it together and you'll have a new drug or vaccine that you helped contribute to. I am really interested in science as it relates to infectious diseases, and it's not really something I've ever wavered about. I understand that research in grad school is not a 20-40 hour commitment, and that you spent a lot of time in the lab - all of my faculty support at uni are PhDs who majored in BBS and have discussed the time commitment at length with me.  

 

f I take a few years off from school, it will only be to get more research experience, as I can predict that that may be interpreted as my greatest shortcoming during the application season.  However, if I'm going to be working in the lab, I would much rather be working there as a PhD candidate than as a lab tech, simply because I know I want to pursue a PhD and not stop at being a tech.

From what I understand, most PhD programs are funded and give a stipend as well as health/dental insurance coverage, so finances aren't too much of an issue at this point with regards to my needing to work to save money for graduate school.

I absolutely agree with your point about enjoying life and socializing - I have made an effort to try and balance social, school and research spheres during my undergrad experience, because I do know it will be a vastly different story in grad school and 50-60 hours a week of research will be expected.

 

I just want to reiterate that you make very good points that are all worth considering, and I really appreciate your taking the time to reply - I will keep them in mind whenever I will apply to grad school.

[Fun_Cookie]

Little bit late but hi! I am admitted to harvard and yale for their bbs programs this fall. I think your age doesn't really matter that much but i think that admission people seem to want older students more. This is because i saw a lot of 23 and older students at the interviews. However, your stat is competitive so you have a high chance of getting into a top 10 program. Just act decently at the interviews.

[blinchik]

Hey Fun_Cookie,

 

 Thank you very much for your advice - I agree with your point that "admission people seem to want older students more," which is why I was concerned in the first place.  I know many Ph.D applicants take a few years off or otherwise just graduate a lot later than I will. I've spoken with my faculty mentors/advisors and I think that if I'm given an interview, I will just touch on the fact that having one fewer year to do everything obviously hindered my application in some respects (19-24 credits a semester leads to a lower GPA, I had less time to prepare for the GRE (aka none), I had one fewer year to research, etc.), but nonetheless, I think my record serves as a testament to my enthusiasm for and perseverance of research opportunities and decent academics despite being on an accelerated path. I will also ask my research supervisors who agreed to write my LoR to touch on that circumstance in their letters. 

Thanks again for your input, I really appreciate it.

[Vene]

Your credentials look quite good to me, I don't think they will get in the way at all. The biggest challenge I could see is the maturity factor. There really is a big difference between the attitude of somebody right out of undergrad versus somebody who has worked full time for a year or two. You'd also be surprised at how many employers are ok with a technician heading off to further their education, especially if your supervisor has an advanced degree, just don't bring it up in an interview. But, if you think are have enough maturity, by all means apply to different programs of interest.

[Eigen]

I don't think it's necessarily a negative, but I think the usual worry is the lack of surrounding life skills for younger applicants- it's something I've seen be a problem for some of our admits that are on the younger end. 

 

You're more frequently going to have to take charge of a project as a grad student, and as such people skills, networking, meeting people who can train you and help you out are important, as is being assertive enough to get what you need done. Being able to be self confident and communicate readily and easily with a roomfull of faculty is a huge benefit, and can even be a necessity. 

 

Similarly, there's a maturity that comes with experience in learning when not to push an issue, when to be overly humble or self-effacing, and how and when to pick your battles- with your PI, with collaborators, with the administration, with labmates, etc.

 

You seem to have good relations with a lot of PIs, so people skills and maturity may not be a problem, but I think it drives a lot of the reticence that accompanies applications from younger applicants. 

[bsharpe269]

I think that you should view this as a benefit rather than problem. What I mean is that you can apply for schools the first year and if you dont have much luck because of your age, then you can work for a year and apply again and will end up starting school at your "normal time." To reiterate what others have said, taking time off will definitely not be bad for you. I had the same mindset as you that I knew I wanted to get into research and also had graduated early (by 1 semester) but ended up taking off a year and a half before starting school again. I really cannot even describe this difference this made. The students who went straight through do *think* that they understand how badly they want their phd but I can say for a fact that all of the top students in my program, making the top grades, and doing the top reserach, have taken time off. All of students without time off are simply average in the program. I am definitely not saying that you cannot be a top student if you go straight through, but there is a VERY clear distiction in my program. I think part of this really comes from the fact that the whole time I was out of school and research, I wanted back in so bad. This made my dedication level completely change when I did get back in.

 

If you are sure you want to go into research then it is definitely worth applying now but if you dont get in, I would not be upset because I promise you will come back an even stronger applicant and researcher because of the time off.

[Eigen]

I will add that our very best students (overall) are the ones who are older than average, on a consistent basis. 

[blinchik]

Hi Vene, 

 

I see your point and certainly understand it - that is my "contingency plan" in case graduate school doesn't work out. Thank you for your input.

 

In terms of maturity, this is a bit of a complicated concept to explain in the right way, but I am the child of immigrants who are refugees and have some familial and cultural experiences that have led me to viewing the world very differently than many American students - in some senses, I am more mature than the average 19 year old because I take very little for granted and understand perfectly that you want to achieve something, you're going to have to often work arduously for it.  In addition, I do have some work history and have excellent relationships with both of my previous employers - I was not doing typical summer intern work because they saw my work ethic and "promoted" me, if you will, to doing far more challenging assignments and also working with full-time adult co-workers cooperatively on proposals and other projects. During my research at my university, I was made the "head" of my particular project and I informally mentor several peer students with regards to research opportunities in our lab and also frequently work cooperatively with other students, lab techs, and my mentor/supervisor. During my time at NIH, which I may be returning to this summer, I frequently went to lab meetings with the full-time staff and participated, as well as lab-centric dinners/lunches and whatnot. While I certainly can learn a lot more about interacting with people and I have a lot of room for personal growth, I do feel that I have been afforded many opportunities to experience what it is like to be the youngest person in a room and to try to earn the respect of my much more experienced, much more intelligent, much older "co-workers," if you will.

Edited March 12, 2014 by blinchik

[blinchik]

Hello Eigen,

 

Thank you for your response.

 

In addition to what I noted above, I also think that objectively speaking, my being invited back to NIH/FDA (the lab I worked in is a bit of a chimera right now) for three summers in a row as well as my continuing research with one professor for a year and a half (it will be 2.5 years next year) can at least serve as an objective illustration that mentors I've researched under think I'm mature enough and valuable enough as an asset to a lab to keep around for longer periods of time than one semester/REU summer program. Of course, I completely understand the points you bring forth with regards to older people generally being more mature and you are welcome to disagree, as is any admissions committee member, but at least there's some evidence to support the idea of my being prepared enough to work in a laboratory environment and all the people-navigating that comes with it.

 

I think perhaps I will talk to my program director and other LoR writers about the points you have mentioned above, and perhaps ask them to note if they feel I am "older beyond my years" and am mature enough to handle the rigors of a PhD program. 

Edited March 12, 2014 by blinchik

[blinchik]

Hi bsharpe269,

 

Thank you for your response.

 

   I think your points echo what others have said and I fully agree with you - if I don't get into any PhD programs, I will certainly apply for tech positions. In my opinion, as I said in the first response i made, while I love research, I would certainly rather be in a PhD program than a tech simply because I know absolutely that a PhD is what I want to pursue, and being a tech would mean being stuck in research career limbo for me, I will certainly try to get a tech position if the places I apply to next year feel I am inadequately prepared for a PhD program.  In addition, as I said above, it wouldn't precisely be a "year off" because I would be doing research full time - perhaps, if necessary, I would take some time off (maybe a summer or so) before even becoming a tech (if I need to).

[ERR_Alpha]

I felt this worked against me at Dartmouth. A lot of people I interviewed with took multiple years off and worked. I think the work experience really made them stand out compared to me. (I am only 21, right out of undergrad) However, a PI at Penn State told me he preferred younger students because they have more energy and less distractions. (I'm assuming families?)

If you're that passionate I would go for it. Worse comes to worse, you don't get in and find a RA job.

Best of luck!!

[Appsitude]

I wouldn't worry too much about age! I am a younger applicant as well (just turned 21 before right before interviews) and, although I was the youngest applicant at most of my interviews, I didn't have any problems getting into great programs! One thing to know before going in is just about every professor will ask you about going into a PhD at such a young age...so make sure to have a good answer for that going in. I honestly don't think you will have a problem getting into a top program so I wouldn't worry too much -- good luck!

[blinchik]

Hey ERR_Alpha,

 

  Thanks for sharing your comments - I figured it could be viewed as either an asset or a liability, depending on who you are talking to.  That, and to an extent, I know admissions is a crapshoot and any perceived disadvantage can work against you. Thanks again for the input and good luck to you as well!

 

Hey Appsitude,

 

   Thanks for sharing your experience as a comparatively younger applicant - I certainly appreciate it!

 

If you don't mind me asking, would it be possible for you to share some info regarding your stats/research as well as your response to the age question? I'm guessing something along the lines of, "I believe I am mature, responsible and passionate enough about research - Example X, Y, Z" would work. You could PM me if you'd prefer, or alternatively, I completely understand if you'd rather not divulge that information.  I would just appreciate getting an idea of what is expected of a highly successful applicant, and I can't find any posts about that sort of thing on your page.

Edited March 16, 2014 by blinchik