Haravard MPA Vs Syracuse MPA

[pritinsp]

Hi

Any thoughts on this?

The tuition cost in Syracuse is HALF of Harvard. The question is the brand name of Harvard double of Syracuse.

Am looking to do International development in areas such as microfinance,etc. And I hope to work in international organizations such as world bank/UN agencies,etc.

Am leaning towards Syracuse rationally and emotionally towards Harvard!

What do people on this forum think about Syracuse?

Accepted: AM program at Harris; executive track at GPPI; USC SPPD (Half Tuition) ; NYU;

[stigMPA]

The tuition cost in Syracuse is HALF of Harvard. The question is the brand name of Harvard double of Syracuse.

Am looking to do International development in areas such as microfinance,etc. And I hope to work in international organizations such as world bank/UN agencies,etc.

Granted, rankings don't mean everything, but it's not an accident that Maxwell MPA has been ranked #1 for so long. Harvard Kennedy is undoubtedly a great program, but to answer your question is no, Harvard's name is not worth even close to double that of Syracuse. Even if you don't take the US News rankings as gospel the two programs are still roughly equivalent.

I'm a bit biased (decided on Maxwell last week), but everything I've seen and heard indiciates that Syracuse is a powerhouse of a program. It's strong in almost every category and has an unbelievable alumni network. It's also a great collaborative environment that seems like it's just about the right size. Plus, you have your degree in hand in a year. The only downside is that you can't get an internship in the summer between years.

The Ivy thing might impress your in-laws, but in the development circles you are talking about the Maxwell name is worth as much as any. I doubt you would regret Syracuse.

[linden]

The question is the brand name of Harvard double of Syracuse.

I don't know if HKS is worth double what Syracuse is worth. But, I can tell you I worked in DC for a couple years, and I had never heard of the Syracuse program until I started researching MPP programs. My SO has worked in two agencies that receive many MPP and IR folks, and again, he's never heard of the Syracuse program or met anyone who graduated from it. Maybe we are particularly uninformed... (I am not trying to offend Syracuse students. I am not referring to the quality of the program; pritinsp asked specifically about Syracuse's brand name relative to Harvard.)

I would also caution you against relying on the rankings too much. Several years ago, I attended a graduate program ranked number one in my niche area of specialty. It might as well have been ranked 124, because no one cared about its U.S. News ranking. It was a good program; it just could not compete with the usual suspects on brand name.

But, pritinsp, if brand name and cost are both important concerns--a position I completely understand--it seems that you have other options between Harvard and Syracuse. Maybe you could start taking a closer look at those. Good luck!

[pritinsp]

DEar stigMPA and linden

thanks for your responses!

Linden so which other option would you consider on par with Harvard ?

Can both of you give me your thoughts on my reasoning for shortlisting Harvard and Syracuse - Do my assumptions look valid (based on my research- but am not sure since I'm an international student who has worked in the private sector- so had no idea on public policy schools before i started out my research)

- Harris school (1 year program for people who already have other graduate degrees such as a MBA) : I am not inclined towards it since it seems very theoretical and lacks any flexibility. The focus seems to be domestic and on quant. Given My background and what I want to do (intl dev) , this does not seem to gel. Besides for just 9 courses , I am paying the same amt of tuition as Syracuse!

- Georgetown - GPPI - MPM (1 year executive track) - I was impressed with the presentation during the information session in DC and decided to apply for the one year program. BUt since I have applied, the response from them has been so poor - nobody responds to mail, i am yet to hear back form them on scholarship, I get different messages every time I call - all this makes me believe that the 1 year program is possibly not as established as the regular MPP program and well maybe the school does not focus on this program as much. I don't want to pay big bucks and be in an ignored program.

- USC - MPA - Though they have given me some financial assistance too and the other big plus being that it is close to Denver (my husband will live there and we will commute), in fact I even like what I see in terms of course offerings - but from what i have heard on this forum, it just does not seem to have the same reputation as top tier schools and seems to be more of a regional name . Its also 2 years- so compared to Syracuse which is one year , I will need to stay away form my husband for an extra year!

- NYU - MPA - this was the last admit i got - so to be honest I have not even done the kind of research I did for rest of the schools! Also this is a 2 year course and

also heard that most people from NYU end up getting jobs in NYU itself - in that sense it still is a regional course.

Can I have opinions on the assumptions I have made in assessing the schools. Out of this list, do you feel I need to consider anyone of the school?

[stigMPA]

I don't know if HKS is worth double what Syracuse is worth. But, I can tell you I worked in DC for a couple years, and I had never heard of the Syracuse program until I started researching MPP programs. My SO has worked in two agencies that receive many MPP and IR folks, and again, he's never heard of the Syracuse program or met anyone who graduated from it. Maybe we are particularly uninformed... (I am not trying to offend Syracuse students. I am not referring to the quality of the program; pritinsp asked specifically about Syracuse's brand name relative to Harvard.)

I'd be interested to know (without compromising your anonymity) where and at what level you worked. Maxwell alumni are all over DC and every senior administrator of a government agency I have met in the last two or three years displayed an awareness of the school and its reputation if I brought it up - often glowingly. When I was applying to MPA programs most schools had at least one Maxwell graduate on the faculty and even those which didn't have a Maxwell alumnus often acknowledged the quality of the program when I told them I was also considering Maxwell. I can't imagine what else you could want in a brand name.

Personal anecdotes aside, I have to wonder what leads you to seriously entertain the idea that the HKS "brand" might be worth double Syracuse's. The Harvard name might help if you intend to eventually leave the policy and public management community, but to say that it could be worth double that of the consistently top-ranked MPA program seems hyperbolic at best - even if you largely discount the validity of the US News rankings. Note the distinction I am making; "double" is an extraordinary strong claim and as such requires extraordinary evidence. If it is even possible to give a value to the "brand" of a program of graduate study, I certainly can't see it in the employment statistics, etc.

In a sense this is a bit of a tempest in a teapot. Everything I've read on this board and been told by mentors indicates that any top-tier program will at least get you the proverbial 'foot in the door' - from then on you're mostly judged on performance and experience. I suggest that you think seriously about the real value of a "brand" - however good. Tens of thousands of dollars is a lot of money - especially on a civil servant's wage.

[stigMPA]

Can both of you give me your thoughts on my reasoning for shortlisting Harvard and Syracuse - Do my assumptions look valid (based on my research- but am not sure since I'm an international student who has worked in the private sector- so had no idea on public policy schools before i started out my research)

You have plenty of good options, but I can't really help unless I have a better idea of what you want to do with your degree. What are your research interests and professional goals?

[pritinsp]

Hi

I am interested in International Development in areas such as micro finance. I would like to get into program management (program evaluation,etc) with multilateral organizations such as World bank or get into Philantrophy management.

[choosy]

Hi all,

Long time reader, first time poster.

Just wondering if there are any opportunities to take courses outside of Maxwell at Syracuse. I understand that the program is quite intensive, but just wondering if anyone knows if cross-registering is a possibility?

Thanks!

[stigMPA]

Hi all,

Long time reader, first time poster.

Just wondering if there are any opportunities to take courses outside of Maxwell at Syracuse. I understand that the program is quite intensive, but just wondering if anyone knows if cross-registering is a possibility?

Thanks!

I believe Syracuse offers both MPA/JD and MPA/IR as joint degree options (not sure about cross-registration in other colleges beyond that). Your MPA would take longer than one year, though.

[poiuytrewq]

Hi,

I'm sort of on the same boat with pritinsp. Now I'm choosing between HKS MPP and Maxwell MPA.

I'm thinking of working for NGOs after graduation, and will maybe persue a phd degree in public policy/social policy/public affair several years later.

Pros for HKS:

- A great school name

- Public Policy courses might help me if i want to persue phd study

Pros for Maxwell:

- Only one year, save a loooot of time and money

- More contact with profs

Advice will be greatly appreciated!

[amj6c]

The tuition cost in Syracuse is HALF of Harvard.

Sorry to change the subject somewhat, but this is maybe the tenth time I've heard someone quote Syracuse's MPA program as being significantly cheaper than other programs, and I'm not seeing it.

Harvard tuition+fees appears to be just over $43k (http://www.hks.harvard.edu/degrees/sfs/prospective-students/tuition/domestic)

Syracuse tuition+fees appears to be just under $50k (http://www.maxwell.syr.edu/pa.aspx?id=679)

Am I missing something? (I hope I am, as I am also planning to go to Syracuse this summer for the MPA, and if someone can convince me it'll cost less than $50k, that'd be great.)

[SportsFan]

Remember that HKS will be two full years at that price, while Maxwell is just one year (plus summers). I think that's where the cheaper price tag comes from...and living expenses will be cheaper than Cambridge.

[amj6c]

Remember that HKS will be two full years at that price, while Maxwell is just one year (plus summers). I think that's where the cheaper price tag comes from...and living expenses will be cheaper than Cambridge.

Ok, I just read this on Harvard's page: "The figures below are the costs of attendance for the 2011-2012 academic year at Harvard Kennedy School." A total of $86,000+ over 2 years is unbelievable.

I agree that plenty of people in the MPA field do have knowledge of and respect for Maxwell's program, and I've heard from alumni directly that the alum network is super strong they take care of their own very well in helping people get good jobs afterward. I know the 12-month program means you can't work part-time during the year or get a summer internship, but personally I would rather save the $36k and get back into a full-time working position after 1 year instead of 2.

Getting back to the topic of Harvard's program vs. Syracuse though, I've heard that Harvard has a more theoretical focus (and appears to have minimal proscriptive coursework, so it may be more flexible), and Maxwell is more practical and focused on building applicable skills. Could just depend on what you really want out of your degree.

[fso2k11]

You're saving way more than $36k at Syracuse. For starters, I can rent a whole house in Syracuse for about $700/mo. or share it with someone for $350. Cambridge is a lot more expensive overall. So look at the total estimated cost of attendance for the programs. I'm calculating that Syracuse MPA total cost is $65k including living expenses (Maxwell website estimates $14,400/yr for living expenses). By this same standard, HKS total cost is $70k/yr x 2 years = $140k! More than double.

However, a top candidate of either program would be competitive for government consulting jobs that pay $100k/yr or more, so if you want to go that route then the $140k sticker shock may be easier to handle. Like when the Playstation 2 came out and cost $350...with only one controller included! Then I got a summer job at McDonalds and realized I could make that much in 2 weeks.

From what I understand about the consultant job market in dc, live modestly in school and afterwards for a few years, and a good "senior consultant" position could pay off the loans fairly quickly. Just don't be tempted to rent a 1 bedroom in Dupont for $2,000/mo. That would be dumb. I can live in the hood and walk to Dupont for $700.

Ok, I just read this on Harvard's page: "The figures below are the costs of attendance for the 2011-2012 academic year at Harvard Kennedy School." A total of $86,000+ over 2 years is unbelievable.

I agree that plenty of people in the MPA field do have knowledge of and respect for Maxwell's program, and I've heard from alumni directly that the alum network is super strong they take care of their own very well in helping people get good jobs afterward. I know the 12-month program means you can't work part-time during the year or get a summer internship, but personally I would rather save the $36k and get back into a full-time working position after 1 year instead of 2.

Getting back to the topic of Harvard's program vs. Syracuse though, I've heard that Harvard has a more theoretical focus (and appears to have minimal proscriptive coursework, so it may be more flexible), and Maxwell is more practical and focused on building applicable skills. Could just depend on what you really want out of your degree.

[DevDoc82]

Take it for what it is worth, but I have a friend who, from 1983-1996, was the Senior Management Advisor of the NSA, and his opinion of the Maxwell School is very high. He continually speaks of the quality of the graduates, namely their application of the training they received at Syracuse. Also, he stated that he had work with many consultants from Booz Allen Hamilton that were Maxwell Alumni. He applauded their analytical ability to traverse tough situation and find amicable solution to various problems at hand. He simply said that the Maxwell School's programs are practical and that it equips students with the know how to dive right into consulting positions at private and public international development companies.

[Latte0708]

Most HKS students return to their home country to become activists or policy practitioner. If you aim to return to your own country after grad this is definitely a great program. But INGOs like definitely favor students from schools such as SAIS, GSPP, Sycracuse and even SIPA and Fletcher. Kennedy's curriculum seemed a bit theoretical and general without much focus on quantitative methods or policy analysis, yet these training are highly valued by world bank, IMF and consulting firms in their first year analyst. Btw, HKS is a huge investment. It suits those people who have already achieved some success in their career. The Mason program is such program for mid-career which is usually fully funded. After all, it's all about being harvard alumnus that is appealing to most people. But why spend that much money on a two yr program which is not as competitive as other cheaper ones when u have full other opportunities to come back for mason program yrs later.

Take it for what it is worth, but I have a friend who, from 1983-1996, was the Senior Management Advisor of the NSA, and his opinion of the Maxwell School is very high. He continually speaks of the quality of the graduates, namely their application of the training they received at Syracuse. Also, he stated that he had work with many consultants from Booz Allen Hamilton that were Maxwell Alumni. He applauded their analytical ability to traverse tough situation and find amicable solution to various problems at hand. He simply said that the Maxwell School's programs are practical and that it equips students with the know how to dive right into consulting positions at private and public international development companies.

[tweeps]

I don't know if HKS is worth double what Syracuse is worth. But, I can tell you I worked in DC for a couple years, and I had never heard of the Syracuse program until I started researching MPP programs. My SO has worked in two agencies that receive many MPP and IR folks, and again, he's never heard of the Syracuse program or met anyone who graduated from it. Maybe we are particularly uninformed... (I am not trying to offend Syracuse students. I am not referring to the quality of the program; pritinsp asked specifically about Syracuse's brand name relative to Harvard.)

I would also caution you against relying on the rankings too much. Several years ago, I attended a graduate program ranked number one in my niche area of specialty. It might as well have been ranked 124, because no one cared about its U.S. News ranking. It was a good program; it just could not compete with the usual suspects on brand name.

But, pritinsp, if brand name and cost are both important concerns--a position I completely understand--it seems that you have other options between Harvard and Syracuse. Maybe you could start taking a closer look at those. Good luck!

[tweeps]

Maybe he didn't know Syracuse and 'Maxwell' were technically the same thing?

[Cityscape360]

As a Maxwell grad with 20 years of professional experience, I  can state definitively that folks on the east coast know both schools and they’re both considered top notch. I went to a first tier ivy as an undergrad and can attest that most of the students and faculty possessed exceptional abilities.

However, it’s also my experience that having Maxwell or HKS on your resume may help you land your first job, but after that, it’s all based on your on-the-job performance In combination with your ability to utilize either school’s alumni network. I would also be remiss if I didn’t mention that I’ve met truly exceptional folks in enviable positions that never attended a top tier school.
 

Whatever you choose, I wish you all great success. 
 

Post script: you have many opportunities to seek dual degrees at Syracuse as well as the adjacent SUNY school of Environmental Science, and Forestry.

Maxwell 98

MPA/MLA