France Funded PhD in Marketing offer, take it or leave it?

[quaker13]

Hi guys,

 

So I was lucky enough to have received a fully-funded offer for PhD in Marketing from ESSEC in France and they want me to make a decision before next Friday. However, I am still waiting to hear back from IESE, IE (Spain), Cambridge (UK) and HEC (France). Of course I will try to ask ESSEC for an extension but it looks like none of the other programs is gonna get back to me in time even with an extension from ESSEC. Anybody has insights on European Business Schools and would like to give me your opinion? ESSEC is reputable and its faculty have been very nice to me; furthermore my potential supervisor actually shares the same American Alma Mater with me so I guess it's a plus plus. Still, I feel like I am making an uninformed decision accepting the very first offer, not being able to weight-in all offers. (Granted, I am not a super-strong candidate and there's a chance that I will not receive any other offer.) 

 

How does ESSEC fare in Europe/France? Should I just go ahead and accept the offer? Or should I reject it and then pray 18 times a day while anxiously waiting for other programs? Or is there anything else I should do? 

 

Thanks so much in advanced for your opinions.

[petergrimes]

Hi,

 

I'm French and I did my undergrad in France. However I am still applying for PhD and I am definitely not a marketing specialist, so take this with a grain of salt.

 

ESSEC is definitely a notch below the other schools you applied to, which are quite comparable. They all are part of the 10 or so semi-elite European schools that that only clearly lag behind INSEAD & LBS. 

 

About ESSEC: it is still predominantly a teaching school. Its reputation comes from their masters, which are considered (in France) on par with HEC. However their emphasis on research is very recent and their PhD has only been accredited in France a few years ago (they previously had agreements with public universities in order to issue doctoral degrees). Tbh I am not sure they have a strong record (or any record) of placement out of France until the last few years. The research groups are very small, since at least half of the faculty only publishes in French journals, doesn't publish anything, or does not even hold a PhD... 

On the flip side, the quality of the doctoral program is apparently OK. The best placement you can hope is probably HEC, which is great. A growing number of PhDs are placed abroad in respectable schools. For those who stay in France (probably the majority), they mostly find tenure-tracked positions in decent French business schools or in public universities. 

 

To sum up: if you absolutely want a position in a research university or if you want to go back to Northern America (assuming from your previous posts you're from the US), decline this offer (the only student they placed in the US may be an INSEAD PhD dropout: http://appsrv.pace.edu/lubin/faculty/departments/showFacultyDetail.cfm?Name=Imran%20Chowdhury). 

ESSEC will most likely place you in teaching-oriented schools in Europe, where your teaching load could be 2 or 3x what you can expect in a competitive US b-school, even if you will be expected to publish somewhat.

On a more practical note, your salary will probably be in the €40-50K range (unless you end up at HEC or a comparable school), which is enough to enjoy a comfortable, upper-middle class living in a medium-sized European city. 

It's up to you to decide - that's probably a life choice down the road.

Edited February 28, 2014 by petergrimes

[quaker13]

Merci beaucoup. Those're very insightful comments, Peter. Real helpful coming from a French. So I take it that INSEAD & then HEC are head and shoulders above everyone else in France, that makes a lot of sense. I actually have eyes on Singapore and plan to go there for a teaching career so ESSEC has some competitive advantage but you are right that ultimately an academic career in Northern America is still very important to me. I guess I will have a tough time making decision. 

[petergrimes]

You are completely right about INSEAD and HEC. Even HEC now mostly places out of France. 

However I am not sure that ESSEC has a strong edge when it comes to placing PhD students in Singapore. Although they have hired nice professors there, their Asian campus is still very recent and looks more like a teaching outpost rather than a full campus - I suspect that the vast majority of their research activity is still concentrated in Cergy and I am not sure they have placed anyone in S-E Asia (HEC/IESE/... probably have a better record for the moment despite no such campus). I would discuss this seriously with your potential supervisor...

 

And if you consider returning to Northern America, why haven't you applied to US schools? Even with a PhD from HEC/IESE/IE/Judge ) you will still be at a disadvantage against PhDs from comparable US b-schools (unless you are of the same caliber as the HEC finance guy recruited by Sloan last year...).

 

Once again, accepting the ESSEC offer is not a bad idea in itself, but such decision will likely have a huge impact on your personal trajectory

[quaker13]

Thanks. I actually lived in Europe for several years and can't wait to get back. I am also very fond of SE Asia. In short, I've been living in America for the last 5 years and have so enough of it. I need to retreat to some other place. It might not be an optimal move for my long term career but it's good for my mental health right now Regardless, I hold American citizenship and most of my immediate/extended family is in the U.S. so I always want a good option for a future comeback. 

 

And no, I ain't nowhere near that HEC guy. I very suspect that he's actually a cyborg in disguise. Humans can't be that smart. He's just 31. lol.

[someguyinAMS]

Hi there, 

 

Ok I just came upon this post - which I guess is a little bit old - but I think the petergrimes guy replying to OP is some kind of HEC troll.  I'm applying this fall for PhD management programs (mostly in Europe, 2016 entry) and I don't understand where he comes up with his information. 

 

Go and take a look at the placements of ESSEC and HEC Paris doctoral students over the past few years: 

 

http://www.essec.edu/fileadmin/user_upload/Rubrique_Programmes/PhD/Newsletters/newsletter-03.pdf

http://www.essec.edu/fileadmin/user_upload/Rubrique_Programmes/PhD/Newsletters/newsletter-02.pdf

http://www.essec.edu/fileadmin/user_upload/Rubrique_Programmes/PhD/Newsletters/newsletter-01.pdf

http://www.hec.edu/Ph.D/Placements-Alumni/Placements

 

Do you notice anything?  If you look carefully, you'll notice a couple of things: 

 

1. ESSEC has a lot of very nice academic placements at schools in Europe, North America, and Asia

2. ESSEC's graduates are mostly non-French, and many / most seem to get very decent jobs

3. HEC has some great placements, but almost all of them have gone to French doctoral students

4. The best HEC placements in finance (Harvard, MIT, Toronto, Rotman - all French students), the other departments are lagging FAR behind, behind ESSEC overall in those areas

5. The HEC placements in marketing and management are not great, and in the past few years lots of postdocs, especially among non-French students (4 postdocs for the 2014 graduates just in the management department)

 

With the exception of finance, there's no way the HEC PhD is the same league as INSEAD and LBS's, that's just a ridiculous statement.  And, more importantly for applicants coming from outside France, there seems to be a really significant difference between where French students in the program end up and where non-French students go.  Even the best non-French graduates from departments like management / OB / strategy (where I'll be applying) seem to have strange career paths - one of these people, probably the best of the non-French, ended up in an accounting department after graduating in OB: 

 

http://www.ie.edu/business-school/faculty-research/faculty/anisa-shyti/

 

I don't know why this is the case, but it's probably worth considering what would happen to students if you're not coming out of a French "grand ecole" and go to HEC.  ESSEC, in contrast, seems to work on integrating non-French students and if you look who is in their program right now it is a very diverse bunch.    

 

Make sure you do your homework guys, there's a lot of misinformation out there!