Did having a paper or two (or three?) published in a peer-reviewed philosophy journal help anybody's chances of admission?

[logos0516]

I was thinking, if I get shut out this year, maybe I should try writing a paper or two for publication in a good philosophy journal. Not sure I would be accepted by the journals at this point, but I was wondering if it's worth a try? Did anybody do that this application cycle? What were the results with the admissions committees?

[DHumeDominates]

This is a good question. I've been much more successful this application season than I thought I'd be, so perhaps I should chime in here.

 

I didn't have any publications, nothing in an undergraduate journal and nothing in a scholarly, professional journal. That said, other things being equal, an applicant with publications is probably in a better position than one without.

 

But what's much more important than where a paper of yours appears (in a reputable journal vs. sitting on your computer at home) is how good your writing sample is. An excellent writing sample is more important than a mediocre writing sample with one or two publications to pad the ol' CV.

 

But perhaps others disagree!

[MattDest]

I'm guessing that if you have a publication in a top-tier journal, that if you use it as your WS, it will likely be better than the vast majority of other applicants' writing samples. 

[DHumeDominates]

I'm guessing that if you have a publication in a top-tier journal, that if you use it as your WS, it will likely be better than the vast majority of other applicants' writing samples. 

 

This is true. But shouldn't the focus be on creating an excellent WS, irrespective of the publication question?

[PhD applicant]

This is true. But shouldn't the focus be on creating an excellent WS, irrespective of the publication question?

Well, since the point of writing a good philosophy paper is to contribute to the prospective community by either publication or presentation at conferences, I'm guessing it looks better to be published.

But frankly, I thought it would look lazy if my writing sample was a publication so I wrote something new for that.

[DHumeDominates]

Well, since the point of writing a good philosophy paper is to contribute to the prospective community by either publication or presentation at conferences, I'm guessing it looks better to be published.

But frankly, I thought it would look lazy if my writing sample was a publication so I wrote something new for that.

 

Right. As I said, other things being equal, the published applicant looks better than the unpublished one. But admissions committees know that applicants want to publish once (if) they become professors. Perhaps what I should have said is that, for the purposes of graduate admissions, it's better to spend as much time as possible perfecting one's writing sample than to devote some of that precious time to preparing a paper for submission to a journal, to making any revisions recommended by a journal's editors, and the like.

[PhD applicant]

Right. As I said, other things being equal, the published applicant looks better than the unpublished one. But admissions committees know that applicants want to publish once (if) they become professors. Perhaps what I should have said is that, for the purposes of graduate admissions, it's better to spend as much time as possible perfecting one's writing sample than to devote some of that precious time to preparing a paper for submission to a journal, to making any revisions recommended by a journal's editors, and the like.

If you could only do one or the other, then I think you're right. Sample should take priority in that case.

[TheVineyard]

I was told not to publish as an undergrad. I'm glad I didn't.

Edited March 1, 2014 by TheVineyard

[PerpetualApplicant No More]

I have an interdisciplinary phil/psych publication in a special issue for philosophers of a top psych journal.

 

I submitted it as my writing sample to some places, and submitted a different paper (a more conceptual moral psych paper) to others.

 

So far, I've been denied exclusively at places where I submitted the publication, and my only offer of admission is from a place where I submitted the other paper.

 

My hunch is either

 

1) The heavily empirical nature of the first paper was looked poorly upon (i.e. there was too much space dedicated to going over data/psych theory that there wasn't enough space left for me to show off my reasoning skills)

 

OR (inclusive)

 

2) It helped to publish and then submit something else, to show that I was more than a "one-trick pony."

 

Of course it could just be that the second paper was a great fit for UCR (it was on the work of people there) and publishing helped me not one bit. So I don't know what to conclude, but I hope this is helpful.

Edited March 1, 2014 by perpetualapplicant

[TheVineyard]

Can I ask why I was downvoted for saying that I was advised I shouldn't publish?

I know a story of a student (now a professor) who was going to get accepted to his school of choice, but got rejected because a publication in an undergrad journal from when he was a freshman tainted his record.

I'm not saying I like it, but it's true. Publications can hurt you, and they are totally unnecessary.

[Edit_Undo]

I have published in an undergrad/Ma journal. I have also submitted a couple of papers to undergrad journals but still waiting for responses for those. I also have presented a paper in two conferences. I have organized a big conference with two other classmates. I have a year of teaching experience (tutoring about 20 students in logic and in discrete mathematics). None of this seemed to have helped. I am guessing that publishing in a professional journal would probably help a bit.

[Griswald]

Can I ask why I was downvoted for saying that I was advised I shouldn't publish?

I know a story of a student (now a professor) who was going to get accepted to his school of choice, but got rejected because a publication in an undergrad journal from when he was a freshman tainted his record.

I'm not saying I like it, but it's true. Publications can hurt you, and they are totally unnecessary.

I strongly agree with this. I've been told by numerous professors in my department that publishing in low-tier journals and presenting at student conferences will not help your admissions chances one bit. Of course, it's plausible that having a paper in, say, J Phil or Nous, could confer some advantage. But if your work is already good enough to get published in venues like that, I doubt you'll have much trouble getting in to good graduate programs.

[PhD applicant]

Can I ask why I was downvoted for saying that I was advised I shouldn't publish?

I know a story of a student (now a professor) who was going to get accepted to his school of choice, but got rejected because a publication in an undergrad journal from when he was a freshman tainted his record.

I'm not saying I like it, but it's true. Publications can hurt you, and they are totally unnecessary.

I'm guessing that, because of some of the other things that have gone on in this forum, people are looking for reasons to downvote you. I wouldn't have downvoted that particular post, but I understand if there's a sort of vibe following you around because some of the other stuff you've said/reacted to. Not that their reactions are good behavior either. Maybe they just want to use up their downvotes.

[ungerdrag]

This is a good question. I've been much more successful this application season than I thought I'd be, so perhaps I should chime in here.

 

I didn't have any publications, nothing in an undergraduate journal and nothing in a scholarly, professional journal. That said, other things being equal, an applicant with publications is probably in a better position than one without.

 

But what's much more important than where a paper of yours appears (in a reputable journal vs. sitting on your computer at home) is how good your writing sample is. An excellent writing sample is more important than a mediocre writing sample with one or two publications to pad the ol' CV.

 

But perhaps others disagree!

 

DHumeDominates is spot on. Your writing sample is far more important than any gold star on your CV—it's probably the most important part of your application. (Today I thanked one of my recommenders, who has plenty of adcomm experience, for writing such a helpful letter. His response: "All the letter can do is to get them to look at your paper.")

 

FWIW, I haven't published a damn thing, and I'm doing just fine. So logos0516, if you get shut out, I'd recommend against trying to get published. Just write another sample and retake the GRE. Those are the only two important parts of your application you can still improve.

[Establishment]

I dunno. If you have a publication, then I feel like you just send that sucker in and make the bank. Just because your writing sample got you into some good programs, doesn't mean it's Philosophical Review good. Whereas Philosophical Review good is probably more than enough to get you into the best programs.

 

Of course, if you're an undergrad, this is pretty unheard of. But if you've got an MA, there's the occasional student that'll achieve such a thing.

 

(Of course, we have to understand a publication as being in something like the Philosophical Review, or some other top, professional journal. We're not talking about some regional journal, or some undergraduate/graduate journal, which really aren't ever worth your time and if anything can come back to bite you.)

[PerpetualApplicant No More]

I wonder if applicants with a MA vs. a BA should think about this differently, especially since admissions committees expect MA applicants to be more polished and focused in their AOI's.

 

As a BA student, you aren't going to publish in phil review, so don't bother trying. Just write the best paper you can that demonstrates your potential. The adcoms understand you are coming straight out of undergrad, and, if they wanted to admit only students who had MA's, they could easily do so--yet they don't.

 

As a MA student, you should also be focusing on writing the best paper you can to show your potential. I think people posting here are absolutely right that your sample is more important than anything on your cv (Note: this only applies for American programs. I've heard that it is different in the UK, since all doctoral applicants have a MA). That said, it's not unreasonable that a top MA student's best paper may be submittable to a top journal, and there is no reason said student should not do so. It won't come back to hurt you like having something in a lower-tier journal might.

[ungerdrag]

I dunno. If you have a publication, then I feel like you just send that sucker in and make the bank. Just because your writing sample got you into some good programs, doesn't mean it's Philosophical Review good. Whereas Philosophical Review good is probably more than enough to get you into the best programs.

 

Of course, if you're an undergrad, this is pretty unheard of. But if you've got an MA, there's the occasional student that'll achieve such a thing.

 

(Of course, we have to understand a publication as being in something like the Philosophical Review, or some other top, professional journal. We're not talking about some regional journal, or some undergraduate/graduate journal, which really aren't ever worth your time and if anything can come back to bite you.)

 

Fair point. A paper in, say, Analysis or The Philosophical Review would make your application look nice. But I've talked with plenty of admissions people, and not one has ever said they've made a decision based on publication history.

 

If you use your publication as your writing sample, great! The fact that it was published will make the adcomm read it more carefully. But ultimately you're not going to get in unless the committee thinks you can write philosophy, and they're not going to make their judgment based off of the judgment of a couple of journal reviewers. They're going to make that judgment for themselves, by reading the sample.

 

So don't get me wrong: I agree that publishing in a top journal would help your chances. It's just that a published paper isn't necessary for this. A strong writing sample, on the other hand, is both necessary and sufficient. So the following principle seems reasonable: given the choice between polishing a sample and getting published, polish the sample. If you've already put in enough time for the sample, then go ahead and try to get published if you want.

[ungerdrag]

I should add that only extremely overqualified applicants are going to get into the PR as undergrads, or even as MA students. (Maybe Analysis would be easier; I know it's been done before.)