Evaluating CUNY's Placement Record

[thinking.complex]

I'm trying to evaluate how good CUNY's placement data is

 

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/Page-Elements/Academics-Research-Centers-Initiatives/Doctoral-Programs/Philosophy/Prospective-Students/Placement-History

 

I feel like my intuitions aren't very well calibrated with this issue.  The CUNY Graduate Center is ranked #14 on Gourmet and has excellent professors (especially in logic), but it doesn't seem to have a very good placement record to me.

 

Does its ranking reflect some future expectation of things getting better?  Can other people tell me what they would think of job prospects of going to this school?

[Cottagecheeseman]

I'm trying to evaluate how good CUNY's placement data is

 

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/Page-Elements/Academics-Research-Centers-Initiatives/Doctoral-Programs/Philosophy/Prospective-Students/Placement-History

 

I feel like my intuitions aren't very well calibrated with this issue.  The CUNY Graduate Center is ranked #14 on Gourmet and has excellent professors (especially in logic), but it doesn't seem to have a very good placement record to me.

 

Does its ranking reflect some future expectation of things getting better?  Can other people tell me what they would think of job prospects of going to this school?

I don't actually know, but I will say that placement =! rankings. There is a correlation that better ranked schools have better placement, but it isn't always so. 

[TheVineyard]

CUNY just doesn't place as well as the schools it is ranked near. Idk why...my guess would be that CUNY Grad Center as a whole just doesn't have the prestige that similarly ranked programs do, like Berkeley or Columbia.

Perhaps when Random State College wants to increase the prestige of is program, all other things being equal (or even slightly unequal), hiring someone from Berkeley sounds better and works further to that end. A similar story might be told to explain why Yale has better placement than Michigan and basically every other program higher ranked than Yale.

Edited March 4, 2014 by TheVineyard

[Table]

I'm trying to evaluate how good CUNY's placement data is

 

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/Page-Elements/Academics-Research-Centers-Initiatives/Doctoral-Programs/Philosophy/Prospective-Students/Placement-History

 

I feel like my intuitions aren't very well calibrated with this issue.  The CUNY Graduate Center is ranked #14 on Gourmet and has excellent professors (especially in logic), but it doesn't seem to have a very good placement record to me.

 

Does its ranking reflect some future expectation of things getting better?  Can other people tell me what they would think of job prospects of going to this school?

 

Keep in mind that the PGR rankings are based on faculty reputation only, and don't say anything about what it's like to be a grad student there, etc.

 

I agree with you that the placement record does not initially look very good—there are definitely schools that place a significantly higher proportion of students directly into tenure-track positions. I'm not totally sure how to interpret the mind people going into research post docs, though. 

[MattDest]

Keep in mind that the PGR rankings are based on faculty reputation only, and don't say anything about what it's like to be a grad student there, etc.

 

I agree with you that the placement record does not initially look very good—there are definitely schools that place a significantly higher proportion of students directly into tenure-track positions. I'm not totally sure how to interpret the mind people going into research post docs, though. 

 

To your last point, I think it's probably a decent sign. As someone interested in mind, these are good places to do a research post-doc. I also think Jesse Prinz would make an exceptional dissertation advisor. He spoke at our graduate conference last year and he's - to quote Ben Affleck - wicked smaht. 

[Die_Kurator]

To your last point, I think it's probably a decent sign. As someone interested in mind, these are good places to do a research post-doc. I also think Jesse Prinz would make an exceptional dissertation advisor. He spoke at our graduate conference last year and he's - to quote Ben Affleck - wicked smaht. 

 

I spoke to him a conference a year or so ago and he's also a wicked cool dude. Super nice, super approachable. Like Mattdest says, he's probably really nice to work with.

[MattDest]

I spoke to him a conference a year or so ago and he's also a wicked cool dude. Super nice, super approachable. Like Mattdest says, he's probably really nice to work with.

 

I bet this sort of popularity makes him a very busy person. Definitely make sure he is open to having more students if you are interested in CUNY! 

[philosophe]

To Table's point, that was my thought exactly. The rankings are purely based on general speculation on the reputation according to fellow philosophers in the field. It's not exactly science. 

[perpetuavix]

Something a friend who's in the history department at CUNY pointed out, is that New York academics like to stay in the city/state and are willing to make sacrifices job-wise to do so. Anec-data, to be sure, but all the 2013 placements were either foreign or in New York State (although only one was in the city). 

[Coggy]

I know two people who have recently (within the past 2 years) received a PhD from CUNY. One major problem a few years back was that no faculty member was willing to serve as the placement director. Also, it is true that Prinz is extremely popular. This is actually an issue as he apparently has a problem with turning down potential advisees. This, of course, means that each advisee gets less attention than they probably deserve. 

 

Also, a careful study of placement records actually reveals that outside the top 10 Leiter-ranked programs, ranking isn't strongly correlated with placement. For instance, UConn and Madison have better placement records than many of the departments are ranked significantly higher. Some departments just place more emphasis on placement than others, and this just isn't something that the Leiter rankings measure.

 

If one focuses on the departments outside of the top 10, the desirability of a department's placement record largely depends on how desirable you find the geographical location of the department. So, if you have a taste for desert landscapes, you should aim to land at Arizona. 

[PhiPhiPhi]

To your last point, I think it's probably a decent sign. As someone interested in mind, these are good places to do a research post-doc. I also think Jesse Prinz would make an exceptional dissertation advisor. He spoke at our graduate conference last year and he's - to quote Ben Affleck - wicked smaht. 

 

I've heard through the grapevine that Prinz is regarded as a bad letter writer by many people, because he speaks glowingly of basically everyone, including what are generally regarded as mediocre job candidates.

 

I've heard this from people on hiring committees at multiple different schools.

[PhiPhiPhi]

 

If one focuses on the departments outside of the top 10, the desirability of a department's placement record largely depends on how desirable you find the geographical location of the department. So, if you have a taste for desert landscapes, you should aim to land at Arizona. 

I don't think this is quite accurate. If you're planning your career out and placing that as first priority, your decision should always be based on how well the department as a whole fits you. If a school is ranked very highly but has no one you can see yourself working with (i.e. no one working in your areas of interest), then you should definitely consider a different school. I personally turned down an offer at a much higher ranked school (in the 20s) due to a supremely better fit at the bottom of the PGR, and have come to realise I shouldn't have ever even considered the other school.

 

Geographic location is an important consideration, but it's definitely not as major as to determine where you go.

[Coggy]

I don't think this is quite accurate. If you're planning your career out and placing that as first priority, your decision should always be based on how well the department as a whole fits you. If a school is ranked very highly but has no one you can see yourself working with (i.e. no one working in your areas of interest), then you should definitely consider a different school. I personally turned down an offer at a much higher ranked school (in the 20s) due to a supremely better fit at the bottom of the PGR, and have come to realise I shouldn't have ever even considered the other school.

 

Geographic location is an important consideration, but it's definitely not as major as to determine where you go.

 

Nothing I said was inconsistent with your remark. Also, I was assuming that one wouldn't apply to a department that had nobody working in one's areas of interest. Obviously, even if one really loves NY, someone who is interested in analytic philosophy of language probably shouldn't apply to the New School.