Michigan State vs. Ball State School Psychology Ed.S.

[schoolpsychic]

Hey y'all!

 

So I am at a bit of an impasse between Michigan State University and Ball State University's Ed.S. School Psychology programs. Both are accredited by the NASP and would guarantee me a job after graduation. Here's the situation:

 

I was accepted into BSU and went to their visitation day over a month ago. I really liked the program there. The professors and students were all very friendly and professional, the classes I sat in on seemed good for the most part, and the facilities were nice. BSU's education department (where school psych is housed) is ranked number 81 in the country, at about the 65th percentile. The assistantship that they are offering me is fantastic. Basically, it pays nearly all of my tuition plus a $9,000 per year stipend. Locationally, BSU is in a very uninteresting area. It's in Muncie, Indiana, which is a pretty podunk town. This would translate into a cheaper cost of living, though, and I would have no problem finding and paying for a single bedroom apartment on the stipend. It's an hour away from Indianapolis where I do have friends and family, too.

 

I had my interview at Michigan State about a week and a half ago. I was pretty set on going to Ball State prior to seeing MSU's program, but visiting their program has changed my mind. Their educational psychology department is ranked number 7 in the nation, and it was clear to me why. Their program prepares students for where school psychology is headed. They have an ecological systems approach (changing the culture of the schools, rather than just working with individuals) and are focused on early interventions (pre-kindergarten). The impression that I got from the current students and faculty is that their program is much more rigorous than BSU's, which I believe would make me into a better school psychologist. MSU is located in East Lansing, which also isn't the most exciting city in the US, but is definitely more interesting than Muncie. I also have friends and family within an hour or two of Lansing. MSU is offering me no funding whatsoever. They do not have any grants or assistantships to offer students in this program, and any other assistantship opportunities through resident life or other departments are extremely limited and competitive.

 

From what I understand, the job market for school psychologists is in high demand currently, so I would have no problem finding a job once I graduated from either program. Basically it boils down to this, do I choose a program that I think is amazing but would leave me in $50,000+ of debt, or should I choose the program that is above average and will leave me with little to no debt whatsoever. I have many specific interests in anti-bullying, early intervention, developmental disabilities, and other things that I believe I could further explore at either institution; but I'm not actually interested in doing research at this time (which is why I'm pursuing the Ed.S. and not the Ph.D.).

 

My main question is whether the better education is worth the debt that I would incur, or would it be stupid to pass up an opportunity for a free education from BSU? Does anyone know how much of a difference that it may make in the long run? The third year of the school psychology Ed.S. program is a yearlong internship in which you work closely with a practicing school psychologist in a school. I believe that this experience would be very similar in both programs; and from what I've heard, you learn more in this third year than the first two years of your education combined. Does anyone know what impact that the university one graduates from has on the job outlook as a school psychologist, in the short-term and the long-term? Down the road I may want to pursue my Ph.D., and I think that the education and connections provided at MSU would definitely help me get into a better program. I have friends and family supporting me in both directions (mostly based on how close they'll be to me if I choose that school ).

 

Any advice or insight would be appreciated from current school psychologists, school psych students, or anyone familiar with Ball State or MSU's programs (or anyone else who has anything helpful to say!)! Thanks!

[iphi]

I would take the funding. Since both achieve the same end (working as a school psychologist) then it doesn't seem worth being $50,000 in debt. That's one year (or more) salary! I know MSU is offering a better education, and that as educators that's a tough thing to pass up! But at the end of the day I have to say that being debt-free would win for me.

[Marycontrary]

Schoolpsychic, I just PM'd you. Same boat. Almost same schools.

[spsycher]

I would go for MSU, since your impression is that it is a better program. I know of some students there who have been able to find assistantships - you just have to find your own. Also, what debt you do incur is eligible for government loan forgiveness program, so after 10 years of payments (like $20/month) the remaining balance is forgiven.

 

Although my take on BSU is that it is more behavioral as it does offer a BCBA option. I am not sure if MSU offers any additional certifications but that is something to take into account if you are interested in those options. 

[schoolpsychic]

I really appreciate the feedback from y'all. I don't think this is making my decision any easier, though.. haha. At this point I'm thinking that flipping a coin might actually be the easiest way to decide!

[toasterazzi]

I don't know much of anything about the specific programs, but I did my undergrad at BSU in the education department (English Ed). It's a pretty great school in my opinion. The professors, student life, resources, etc. were all pretty fantastic. In truth, Muncie is not the most hopping of towns, but it does have a good deal to offer, depending on what types of things you're looking for. The highest rent I ever paid while I was living there was like $375 per month. And the campus itself has plenty of activities, organizations and events going on every day. If you do end up there, I recommend taking advantage of friday night filmworks (free movies!), late nite (free food and other random activities!), and sporting events (free admission!). Also, the campus brings a carnival in at the end of every school year, which is probably the best way to go into a finals week .

 

If you have any questions about the town or campus in general, just let me know

[schoolpsychic]

Toasterazzi, thanks so much for the info on Ball and Muncie. Carnivals during finals sound absurd but fun. What do these carnivals consist of exactly?

 

I've been looking at single bedroom apartments near Ball State's campus. Ideally I'd like to be able to bike to school every day (at least when it's not blizzarding outside like it has the past three months this winter), which is totally possible given the affordability of apartments so close to the university. Do you have any recommendations or suggestions for places to live? I'm assuming you shared housing with friends, given the amount you paid for rent.

 

Their recreation facility is apparently also free/ included in tuition which is pretty cool. I would totally take advantage of that. I remember the Michigan State students during interview day talking excitedly about the two days per year that their rec center was free to use.

[Marycontrary]

Apartments near the BSU campus that I've researched and called about/gone to see:

 

 

220 N. McKinley Ave. Apartments (2 bedrooms leasing currently for $725/mo)  http://robertratchford.com/2022

 

201 & 203. N. McKenzie Apartments (one bedrooms popular for grad students, $400 or $450/mo) http://robertratchford.com/423

 

Sycamore House Apts. @ 920 N. Linden Street  (600 sq. ft studo @ $420/mo)  http://www.4mpropertygroup.com/sycamorehouse/

 

Sugarbush Apts. ($585 for a one bedroom) These are older, but spacious and kept up nicely. You get a bonus room off the kitchen. These are def. farther out than the others listed but they're on the MITS bus line. http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Indiana/Muncie/Sugarbush/20447/

[toasterazzi]

Toasterazzi, thanks so much for the info on Ball and Muncie. Carnivals during finals sound absurd but fun. What do these carnivals consist of exactly?

 

I've been looking at single bedroom apartments near Ball State's campus. Ideally I'd like to be able to bike to school every day (at least when it's not blizzarding outside like it has the past three months this winter), which is totally possible given the affordability of apartments so close to the university. Do you have any recommendations or suggestions for places to live? I'm assuming you shared housing with friends, given the amount you paid for rent.

 

Their recreation facility is apparently also free/ included in tuition which is pretty cool. I would totally take advantage of that. I remember the Michigan State students during interview day talking excitedly about the two days per year that their rec center was free to use.

 

Usually, the carnival is pretty full-scale. The university brings in a carnival group, and they set up several rides, stands, etc. Sometimes the games aren't that great, but the carnival is still a good time overall.

 

There's a lot of residential area right around campus with several houses and some small apartment buildings as well as campus apartments and a few smallish apartment complexes pretty nearby. I know Windsong and Oakwood were some fairly close affordable complexes if I remember correctly. There are others, but I don't remember all the names anymore.  If you're interested in the campus apartments, they aren't too shabby if you're not looking for like super awesome aesthetics lol. 

 

I lived farther away from campus for the latter half of my undergrad (about a ten-fifteen minute drive). However, I will go ahead and mention that Muncie has a pretty solid bus system, which you only need to show your student ID to ride for free. There are various routes that go to some of the main places that students typically want to go to like the mall, Target, Walmart, etc. And the route I rode stopped just outside of my complex, approximately every fifteen minutes during weekdays. I did have roomates, but I think most people who were flying solo still weren't paying too much more than me (maybe 100-150 bucks or so). I'm sure the prices have gone up some in the last few years, but most places were pretty affordable.

 

And yes, that rec center is stellar! I didn't actually get to use that one because it was still being worked on after I graduated. It's pretty schnazzy from what I've seen in my returns to campus though. And yeah, that's free and available. There's also another smaller gym on the other side of campus as well. And speaking of free perks, if you're into any sort of theatre, concerts, etc., the campus regularly brings various performers in to perform at the large auditorium. And tickets to those events are almost always either free or extremely discounted for students.

 

Edit: If you are willing to go a bit farther away from campus, I can recommend Windermere Place and University Estates from my own personal experience and Silvertree from several friends. I think all of those places would require you to have at least one roommate though. Silvertree *might* have singles. I'm not sure about that one.

Edited March 13, 2014 by toasterazzi

[schoolpsychic]

Thanks for the info on apartments! I decided to accept the offer from Ball State. It's official. The great apartment-hunt begins now.

[toasterazzi]

Congrats and good luck!

[baunlee]

Yeah I would definitely go with Ball State. The interview day at MSU just seemed like such a production and unnecessary in a lot of ways. For a more critical applicant looking at factors that actually matter, it is pretty obvious that the program is taking a downward turn. I thought it was funny how they had the coffee break but said you could only get "small" sizes. I would rather not have had a coffee break at all because it just seemed like the department didn't have any money.  In reality MSU as a university has money they just don't want to put it into the Ed.S program so why should we put our money into it, when they don't even think its worthy?

The other insufferable part was the applicants I happened to get stuck with.  That is a matter of chance but the people in my group didn't ask any questions which was awkward and then when they finally asked a total of 2 questions, they were stupid such as when the blonde in my group asked, "would you say all the professors are supportive?" casting quite the wide net there.  Seems pretty obvious even the best program would have some less involved faculty.  Another of the applicants in my group did not ask a single.question.all.day   .  Even when she was directly asked questions her response was "pretty much what they already said" (referring to my and other applicants in our group's answers). I would say the applicant pool at MSU was the least impressive of all my interviews, the students seemed immature almost and over 80% were in state. Anyways I wouldn't mind the way the visiting day was structured but it seemed (or at least I felt) like they didn't care to really get to know you as a person. Lastly, the faculty interview I had was slightly inappropriate.  

 

Overall it sucks, because going into the process MSU was my TOP choice and I was fully prepared to go, but I think keeping an open mind about things is always best.

It sounds like you made the right choice though!

[schoolpsychic]

Haha. Yeah, I did not get the best impression of the other interviewees that day, either. I really liked the first and second year students that we interacted with, though. They were all very friendly and helpful in answering questions and providing a good picture of the program. I definitely would have appreciated interacting with the faculty more, but they were busy with interviews for the majority of the day. I really did like the professors that I had a chance to speak with. The email correspondence I've had with the faculty and one of the current students have been very prompt, friendly, and helpful, as well! How was your interview inappropriate?? Mine were all very professional.

 

MSU puts it's money into the Ph.D. programs. That's how they get published, highly ranked, and funded. Sadly they are given priority over the Ed.S. students, but I can't really blame them for it. I'm sorry you had such a negative experience there. I'm just happy they fed us that delicious pizza at the end of the day!