School Comparison (UChicago and HDS)

[yuanzhu]

Does anyone here have any insight into the difference of cultures at UChicago Divinity and Harvard Divinity?

 

It is my impression that H is a bit more warm and open (which is appealing to me given that I attended a cozy NE liberal arts school for undergrad), while I'm a little intimidated by Chicago's straight-up rigorous academic rep. 

Does anyone have a more intimate experience with these two schools?

 

I'm leaning towards Harvard at the moment, but Chicago is very strong in my area of study (Tibetan Buddhism) and has offered me a bit more cash. I'd like to continue on to a PhD (although not necessarily at either of these schools), and it is my impression that both are solid for getting their students into good PhD programs. It seems like the biggest question is thus- which school culture will spark my intellectual fires to the fullest?

 

Any advice and/or experiences would be much appreciated.

[george_lit]

Will you be able to visit both of the schools? It sounds like a tough decision. I have the same impression about the different cultures there (HDS super liberal and UofC super intense). If you're in the NE you can visit both cheaply by taking busses and staying at hostels. If you can't visit, I guess the next best thing is to spend some time sitting quietly and listening to your heart to help you decide based on the info available to you.

[marXian]

Someone who attends UofC full time might be able to do better than this, but I took a seminar there in my first quarter at Northwestern. It was one of the "famous" theology seminars that UofC offers. I was one of maybe 5 PhD students (2 from Chicago, 2 from Wheaton, and myself) and the rest, 10 or 12, were MA or MDiv students. If I had one word to describe the course, it would be "cutthroat." While the atmosphere was generally good natured, it did feel at times like the M* students were clamoring for the professor's attention; every single person was interested in pursuing a PhD a UofC. It seemed to be understood that this was just how things worked, and the professor actually seemed to revel in it a little bit. I did really like the prof and the course overall, but I felt like I never had a chance to speak, and when I did it was just exhausting being cross-examined sometimes (not all the time) by M* students on what was ultimately minutia (i.e. "Why did you use this word and not this one?") I'm all for precision in one's thinking, but it got a little silly. This could have been an exceptional case given the reputation of the seminar (the prof. said more publishable papers were produced from that seminar than any other in the div school--or something like that) and the popularity of the prof, but whatever it was, it was rough.

[vega maudlin]

I have to chip in here. I was an undergraduate at the U of C and took many classes at the Div School while I was there. I never experienced the 'cutthroat' atmosphere described by the poster above and was a little startled (upon visiting masters' programs elsewhere) to hear the U of C described in those terms. Frankly, the vast majority of classes I took felt like extremely collaborative enterprises, and the intellectual atmosphere and chance for good conversation were unparalleled. Now, granted, I was an undergrad, and it may have felt differently for the M* students in particular (who were all competing for the same spots). But this was simply my experience.

[Kuriakos]

I have no personal experience, but someone else in my program did their MA at UChicago and described it exactly the way MarXian did.

[Lux Lex Pax]

I second Kuriakos. I've heard other graduates of U of C describe it like marXian did as well.

[therealhogwarts]

I have also heard from previous U of C students that it is extremely cutthroat. In fact one even mentioned that he chose a different PhD program, despite being admitted to U of C, for that very reason.

[yuanzhu]

Will you be able to visit both of the schools? It sounds like a tough decision. I have the same impression about the different cultures there (HDS super liberal and UofC super intense). If you're in the NE you can visit both cheaply by taking busses and staying at hostels. If you can't visit, I guess the next best thing is to spend some time sitting quietly and listening to your heart to help you decide based on the info available to you.

 

George, I won't be able to visit. I live in a village in rural China, so all decisions must be made from here.

[vega maudlin]

Again -- I never heard or experienced this when I was there, and I've never heard it from my friends who are doing MAs or PhDs there now. But it does seem that I am in the minority, on this board at least!

[marXian]

Again -- I never heard or experienced this when I was there, and I've never heard it from my friends who are doing MAs or PhDs there now. But it does seem that I am in the minority, on this board at least!

 

Some people thrive in that atmosphere and so, to them, it's not cutthroat at all. As I said in my comment, the atmosphere was generally good natured; all the UofC people seemed to be in the know that this was just how things are done.

[vega maudlin]

Some people thrive in that atmosphere and so, to them, it's not cutthroat at all. As I said in my comment, the atmosphere was generally good natured; all the UofC people seemed to be in the know that this was just how things are done.

 

Well, that's fair. I loved the atmosphere -- it was intellectual and intensely invigorating. I would not at all have described it as 'cutthroat', partially because everyone was so warm and good-humored, and partially because -- although the academic standards were extremely high -- it never seemed that students were pitted against each other or attempting to 'beat' one another (which is what I think when I hear 'cutthroat'). But look, here I am objecting to your definitions of terms! So perhaps I simply fit right in.

 

Yuanzhu, I do know many people who love it there, and it also seems there are many who found it too rigorous/cutthroat/stressful/intense/etc for their tastes. It may depend on your temperament.

[Kuriakos]

Perhaps it is just the Christianity oriented classes?

[Perique69]

UChicago is overrated, IMO.  While it has some worthwhile people, too many are blowhards.   

[yuanzhu]

UChicago is overrated, IMO.  While it has some worthwhile people, too many are blowhards.   

Valuable info, but on what experience do you base this opinion?

[Perique69]

Valuable info, but on what experience do you base this opinion?

 

I taught there as a visiting prof recently.  Don't get me wrong, it's obviously an excellent school.  But some faculty and students overreach too often, making it more about competition than education.    

[Paraclete]

I taught there as a visiting prof recently.  Don't get me wrong, it's obviously an excellent school.  But some faculty and students overreach too often, making it more about competition than education.    

 

That's so interesting. Would you have any relevant experience that makes you feel this isn't the case at other competitive schools? HDS, for example?

[mdiv2014]

Although this is outside the original question harvard has a stronger brand image worldwide. If original poster maintains world wide travels being harvard alum opens more doors than UC

[yuanzhu]

Although this is outside the original question harvard has a stronger brand image worldwide. If original poster maintains world wide travels being harvard alum opens more doors than UC

 

A recognizable name is not my top priority, but it is indeed something to be considered.

I've spent several years outside the US, and I'll certainly be returning to China for further research/study. Name-brands (such as H) are HUGE in China, even compared to the US.

[yingoriental]

Hi, yuanzhu! I am also an applicant from China, so great to meet you here on this discussion board!

 

First of all, congrats to your two admissions! I did apply to HDS, but got denied...I heard one girl in Qinghua also got admitted into HDS MTS with presidential scholarship. Admire you both!

 

Second, I am struggling with choosing which school to go as well. UChicago Divinity School and Boston University are on my list. Just as you mentioned, "Big names" are somehow crucial back in China. But I really look forward to life in Boston City! 

 

Which school do you prefer right now? 

[yuanzhu]

Hi, yuanzhu! I am also an applicant from China, so great to meet you here on this discussion board!

 

First of all, congrats to your two admissions! I did apply to HDS, but got denied...I heard one girl in Qinghua also got admitted into HDS MTS with presidential scholarship. Admire you both!

 

Second, I am struggling with choosing which school to go as well. UChicago Divinity School and Boston University are on my list. Just as you mentioned, "Big names" are somehow crucial back in China. But I really look forward to life in Boston City! 

 

Which school do you prefer right now? 

Yingoriental, I'm actually not Chinese. I've spent the past two years living in Yunnan (大理附近), but I'm actually American. The competition for Chinese applicants seems to be incredibly intense... hats-off to your accomplishments!

 

If name is a consideration, I'd wager to say that UChicago definitely outdoes BU. Chicago is also a very good city.

I'm currently leaning towards HDS given that the professors there have been INCREDIBLY supportive of me so far (no negative comment on UChicago, they've been solid as well), and I really like the collaborative atmosphere

[Perique69]

That's so interesting. Would you have any relevant experience that makes you feel this isn't the case at other competitive schools? HDS, for example?

 

It's the case at virtually every competitive school, but it's a matter of degree.  HDS is considerably less this way compared to UChicago.  

[Paraclete]

Hi, yuanzhu! I am also an applicant from China, so great to meet you here on this discussion board!

 

First of all, congrats to your two admissions! I did apply to HDS, but got denied...I heard one girl in Qinghua also got admitted into HDS MTS with presidential scholarship. Admire you both!

 

Second, I am struggling with choosing which school to go as well. UChicago Divinity School and Boston University are on my list. Just as you mentioned, "Big names" are somehow crucial back in China. But I really look forward to life in Boston City! 

 

Which school do you prefer right now? 

 

 

Hi yingoriental! That's so funny. I'm in basically the exact same situation at the Qinghua girl with HDS, except that I studied there only for one year as an undergrad exchange student last year! What are the chances! Is your alma mater Qinghua/Tsinghua as well?

[yuanzhu]

Decision made. HDS it is

[dr. t]

Hooray & welcome! I'd say I'd see you around, but I study medieval Christianity and spend a lot of time down at the Yard, so that might not actually happen.

 

It's the case at virtually every competitive school, but it's a matter of degree.  HDS is considerably less this way compared to UChicago.  

 

An interesting theory, particularly since something like a third of HDS is drawn from UChicago in one way or another.

[Paraclete]

Decision made. HDS it is

 

Yay! Congrats on the decision! It must feel good to put the suspense to bed. As for me, I'm still hanging in the balance between the two. Maybe I'll see you at orientation at HDS!

 

Hooray & welcome! I'd say I'd see you around, but I study medieval Christianity and spend a lot of time down at the Yard, so that might not actually happen.

 

 

An interesting theory, particularly since something like a third of HDS is drawn from UChicago in one way or another.

 

A third of HDS' what? Admitted students? I did a count of the main faculty of HDS, and 10 out of 42 listed on the HDS handbook's faculty section has their PhD from U of C (maybe one or two was M*, I don't recall right now...)

Edited March 27, 2014 by Paraclete