Is an unfunded MA from Marquette worth it?

[rubberducky]

For starters, I only applied to their MA program (SOAP) as my general thought at the time was an unfunded MA was better than an unfunded PhD, and I know that funding there is rare. I've got a very strong GPA from a not-well-known slac with probably a questionable paper and I'm unsure of my LORs.

 

I've also been considering law school on and off, and if I went there, it's possible that I'd eventually apply to their part-time law program. Of course, actually completing their MA/JD program is conditional upon an actual law school acceptance. 

 

Anyway, I was rejected from the only other (competitive) program I applied to. I applied late in the game because I ended up graduating a semester early. I just tossed out the two applications because the deadlines hadn't passed and I'd reasonably want to attend the schools. 

 

There are some benefits for me attending MU's MA program like flexibility as I can attend there part-time. I do have a kid, and am slightly nervous about balancing that with a full-time PhD (undergrad was sometimes tough, but children age every day), and it would afford me the opportunity of deciding whether a PhD is right for me or not. I'm often on my own with child-rearing. 

 

That said, do you think it would be a *mistake* to do this, besides the financial repercussions? In other words, could it actually hurt me? Obviously, it would mean no app season next year, but the experience might be worth it. Thoughts?

[dgswaim]

"Worth" is difficult to quantify here. It just sort of depends really on how much you would value a degree from Marquette and how much that "offsets" your economic loss. Do you want to do a PhD after you finish your MA? Will Marquette put you in a competitive position to do so?

[zblaesi]

Guys, don't worry: CUNY wants to admit me into their MA program for liberal arts.

[Guillaume]

For me to provide meaningful feedback (i.e. this is what I might do, if I were in your position) I would need additional information...

 

1. If you decided not to pursue a PhD or a JD, will this program have been "worth" the time and money you invested in it? While there may be some increased job mobility associated with having an advanced degree (not specific to a M.A. in philosophy) it is marginal, so this question is really prompting an inquiry as to the personal enrichment or satisfaction you will receive having attended this program.

 

2. Are you in a position to make this financial investment? You mentioned that you have a child...

 

3. Are you interested in pursing the part time program so that you have time to spend with your child or are you planning to continue working full time while pursing the M.A. degree? While most programs are advertised as "full time" and only fund the first two years, the time to degree completion in many programs is longer and most only require that you complete the program within five years of your formal matriculation in the program.

 

4. Are you tied to the state of Wisconsin or the city of Milwaukee? (custody agreement, familial support, etc.)

- If the answer to this question is "yes," and you wish to remain in Wisconsin and/or Milwaukee, why not take classes at the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee as an non-degree candidate in the fall and apply for admission into their funded program in the spring? (I didn't want to speculate, but in developing my response, I understood that there was a chance that this was the funded program to which you previously applied.) This would give you the opportunity to decided whether or not you are interested in pursing the M.A and PhD at a lower price point (this assumes you qualify for in-state tuition), provide you with better letter of recommendation if you do decide to continue with an M.A. program, and put you in a position to get funding if you are admitted into their program full time. http://www.graduateschool.uwm.edu/students/prospective/admission/non-degree/

- If the answer is "no" and you are not tied to the city of Milwaukee or the state of Wisconsin, it still seems like taking classes as a non-degree student at UWM and then using that additional coursework, stronger letters of recommendation, and improved writing sample to apply to funded M.A. programs still might be a good option to consider.

 

5. Do you have a strong position against applying again next year?

 

6. Do you have a greater interest in law or philosophy? Many JD programs, upon admission, allow you to pursue a joint MA in philosophy without the need for an additional formal application to the school within the university offering the M.A.

 

Again, for me to suggest exactly what I would do if I were in your position is difficult without having additional information. From what you have already shared, it seems as though there is still a lot of indecision on your end. For that reason, I can say that I would try to limit my financial exposure while I sought to clarify my real interest in pursuing the degree and further refine the ideal outcome of my participation in such a program. Financial considerations aside, while I don't think your participation in this program would "hurt you," unless you performed poorly, depending on what your ideal outcome is, it seems like there might be slightly more strategic options available to you.

 

Edit - In rereading your post again, it seems like you might be at the point where you are tired of not knowing exactly what you want to do/pursue and are just looking for a way to "move forward" in areas where you have some degree of interest. If this is the case, I understand. I have been there...perhaps I'm still there. If that was a complete misread, then you have my apologies and I wish you the best with your decision.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Guillaume

[Silly_Socrates]

I'm in MU's SOAP program, so I sent you a PM.

[TheVineyard]

I would never go to an unfunded philosophy program. In fact, this is the first thing that was hammered into my head as an undergrad. Life is tough enough even when funded...going to an unfunded program is not only suicide for your wallet, it means that you didn't get into a well-recognized program (all of which offer at least some funding for at least some students) so you probably won't have too much success in your applications for PhDs.

Edited March 26, 2014 by TheVineyard

[dgswaim]

MANY students are successful at fetting into phd programs after an unfunded MA. Many, many.

[Establishment]

MANY students are successful at fetting into phd programs after an unfunded MA. Many, many.

And many, many are left shut out, now with HUGE amounts of debt.

[ianfaircloud]

That said, do you think it would be a *mistake* to do this, besides the financial repercussions? In other words, could it actually hurt me? Obviously, it would mean no app season next year, but the experience might be worth it. Thoughts?

 

What do you mean by unfunded? Do you mean that you get a tuition waiver but don't get any funding beyond that? Or do you mean that you have to pay tuition and you have no sources of income (other than outside employment)?

 

Do you have access to savings or wealth? I assume, based on your questions, that you don't. I mentioned in another thread that I think people need to consider what's at stake when taking on additional debt for a graduate degree in philosophy. If another person's welfare is at stake, morality may require something from you that it doesn't require of someone who has few or no connections.

 

How many people earned an MA in philosophy at Marquette and eventually landed a job in philosophy that pays the bills?

 

 

 

For me to provide meaningful feedback (i.e. this is what I might do, if I were in your position) I would need additional information...

 

Yes.

 

I would never go to an unfunded philosophy program. In fact, this is the first thing that was hammered into my head as an undergrad. Life is tough enough even when funded...going to an unfunded program is not only suicide for your wallet, it means that you didn't get into a well-recognized program (all of which offer at least some funding for at least some students) so you probably won't have too much success in your applications for PhDs.

 

Vineyard's warning may sound extreme, but the message is reasonable. The message is that taking on additional debt to earn a master's in philosophy is extremely risky for some people.

 

Here are the relevant questions:

 

1. Do you have access to wealth or savings?

 

2. Do you have a fail-safe backup plan, in case philosophy doesn't work out? What would you do if philosophy doesn't work out?

 

3. Is earning the graduate degree in philosophy something that's only valuable to you as a means to the end of having a career in philosophy (or something closely related)? Or is there a great deal of 'intrinsic' value in earning the degree?

 

4. Does this particular program have a strong record of success?

 

5. What would happen to you and other people near you if you pursue the degree and "fail"?

[Establishment]

The first thing you need to do in order to make any sort of cost/weight analysis since it doesn't seem listed on their page, is email and ask for a complete placement record for their M.A. program. A list of all students who entered, and which one of them were accepted/enrolled to which schools.

[Neither Here Nor There]

MA program did not give me a stipend, but did wave my tuition. I did not have a BA in philosophy, so getting any funding was good (my writing sample and LOR helped). I have no regrets. It was my dream to study philosophy. I may or may not get into a PhD program given that the school is not well known. I am still glad I am doing the MA regardless. It was my dream to study philosophy and study it at the graduate level.

 

So I think it comes down to that. Do you love philosophy so much you want to study it at the graduate level, and do you have enough money? Alternatively, you could wait a year and reapply at schools. If you thought it would help, you could take one or two graduate courses just to get a better writing sample.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Mangosteen

[dgswaim]

And many, many are left shut out, now with HUGE amounts of debt.

[dgswaim]

Yeah, sure. I suppose my point is just that while there is a certain amount of risk, it's a risk that many have taken and taken successfully. One must simply decide whether or not the risk is worthwhile.

[maxhgns]

For my part, I wouldn't do it--especially if I had a child. Life with a child can be rough enough even with a PhD stipend. It's not that going there would be a mistake necessarily, just that I'd be too concerned about the hole it would eat in my pocket, especially with a child to worry about. After the PhD, you'd have to worry about filling in that financial hole. Given the state of the job market, that might never happen. Even with a job in hand, it wouldn't be all that easy.

[ianfaircloud]

For my part, I wouldn't do it--especially if I had a child. Life with a child can be rough enough even with a PhD stipend. It's not that going there would be a mistake necessarily, just that I'd be too concerned about the hole it would eat in my pocket, especially with a child to worry about. After the PhD, you'd have to worry about filling in that financial hole. Given the state of the job market, that might never happen. Even with a job in hand, it wouldn't be all that easy.

 

This is bold advice but seems reasonable to me. 

 

For some people (not necessarily you!), it takes a lot of debt and years of service before these people realize that they will never be able to be professional philosophers (in a way that passes a cost-benefit test or allows them to meet obligations). Nobody wants to hear, "Give it up! It's not worth it!" But we all know people whose lives would be better if they heard this.

 

I feel particularly qualified to speak on the subject right now!

 

Think of the number of ways that you can remain philosophical without being a professional philosopher! As far as I know, Ronald Dworkin never earned a PhD in philosophy. Many of the greatest philosophers (even in recent years) did not earn graduate degrees in philosophy. Many current teachers of academic philosophy do not hold graduate degrees in the field, because, simply put, one can competently teach philosophy without such a degree. It's possible to take a degree in a related field -- politics, psychology, and law come to mind -- and remain very active in philosophy. Many competent teachers of legal theory, of course, have earned graduate degrees only in law.

[philstudent1991]

Oops, posted in the "Funded" thread, if OP is interested.