Just figured out I wanna go to grad school for: Geography...

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

Hi everyone. I'm just finishing up my undergrad at HWS (Hobart and William Smith Colleges) in Geneva, NY. and just realized I should have applied to grad schools. The problem is I didn't think I was going to last fall. I've got a really mixed-up, all across the board major and minor. I'm an Environmental Studies Major with a double minor in Asian Studies and Economics.

How I got to this point is a little weird, I originally wanted to be an econ major like everyone else in my family but found out that having discalculia (not sure on spelling, but it's a math disability) turned econ into a 4 year long nightmare. I got distracted and took a semester study abroad in Vietnam got all As, was given an Asian studies minor, and then came back and took 3 courses in geography: environment and development in east asia, geography of garbage, and am now taking an intro GIS course. I switched my econ major to a minor in order to fulfill our school's disciplinary/interdisciplinary requirement and have retaken two econ courses and need to take yet another over the summer after I graduate to actually get my degree in the mail. I love GIS, and learning about how and why people do the things they do where they do them. Having grown up in 4 different Asian countries and speaking several languages; Thai (mother's tongue), Japanese, Vietnamese-both enough to get around. I really think I want to pursue a graduate degree in Geography.

On top of all this I was lucky to score a summer research job in '08 working with an ecologist and surveying upstate ny for invasive aquatic plants. I didn't really get to contribute much to the scientific journal article other than my name, but I got to do all the dirty work from sorting dead, wet plants, baking them and weighing them as well as scuba diving off a pontoon boat in the finger lakes to get the plants.

My only issues are I don't have the world's greatest GPA, 2.75 or 2.8 depending on how well I do at the end of this year. I also need to take a kaplan course on the GREs to boost my score. I do however have 2 profs. who'd be willing to write recommendations. I also may wind up with a part time job with a company called Green Living Project, in Van Nuys, CA. My plan is to use the free time to practice my GREs and start applying to schools. I only really interested in going to schools on the West Coast. One of my geography profs. went to U or Washington and really recommends it while another geography prof. of mine recommends some of the UC schools. I'm also looking at Hawaii as a possibility. My significant other just got accepted for applied mathematics at UC Davis and I was thinking it might be nice to be near her.

So there you have it, my college life story thus far. I really appreciate any thoughts or comments on what I should do and would love to know what any current grads in geography are doing and how they got into their schools.

If anything sorry for such a long post, I didn't mean to waste anyone's time. tnx.

[thepoorstockinger]

What do you want to do with a graduate degree? What exactly would you want to study within the very broad discipline of geography?

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

I'd like to learn how to use GIS to spatial analysis and conduct research on how to lessen the impact of human land use. How can we make the most efficient use of space with the smallest amount of impact. This is just my ideas thus far.

[thepoorstockinger]

So do you want to work in the academy? For government? For NGOs? For corporations?

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

I think I would be comfortable working for any of those provided that I find something meaningful that I can support myself with. I don't know if I'd make a good teacher, but then I've never really tried to teach anyone but myself. With the little research I've done, I enjoyed doing it. I'm somewhat independent and like working on my own but it's good to get outside opinions and help when needed. I have a part time position offered by a sustainability non-profit hopefully starting this summer.

[thepoorstockinger]

I ask because what you intend to do with your graduate degree should be a pretty integral part of deciding what degree you want to get, and where you want to get it. If you don't know why you're doing it how would you know what to do?

Things that pop out that I'll randomly comment on:

- Can you get more geography courses? Three undergrad classes seems like a pretty serious lack of preparation given how technical geography can get compared to some other humanities/social science disciplines.

- What is the reference letter situation like? Do you think you get good ones from people who actually know you?

- You need to narrow down your research interests. They still seem very vague.

- Your language skills could be a pretty huge advantage if you're planning on studying a topic related to those regions or related to human geography and immigrant populations who speak those languages.

- A low GPA is not a huge deal if your recent marks are good. Most programs tend to put the emphasis on the last two years of course work.

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

I am also very interested in the development of south east Asia. (That's why I studied abroad in Vietnam and minored in Asian studies.) Particularly the countries that share the banks of the Mekong River: Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam. How they have developed since the second world war. Why they are still considered third world countries, and what programs are being conducted to improve the standards of living in those countries.

[Stories]

Getting a MA/MS in Geography will boost your chances of getting into a PhD program. It will also enhance your geography knowledge so that you can hone your research interests.

I had a 2.9 uGPA and got into my MPH program (at Boston U.). I had a 3.5 gGPA and got into my PhD program (at Yale U.). GPA is only a small part of your package.

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

Thanks people, you're all making me feel better. Lately I've been really burned out and under a lot of stress. I guess I'm going to keep posting my progress.

[rising_star]

Things that pop out that I'll randomly comment on:

- Can you get more geography courses? Three undergrad classes seems like a pretty serious lack of preparation given how technical geography can get compared to some other humanities/social science disciplines.

This only matters if the OP wants to pursue GIS or remote sensing. And, even then, it's possible to pick up all of the skills if you're a hard working master's student. I'll also add that many programs offer a GIS certificate that one can pursue as a non-degree student. There won't be funding for these but they will give you a chance to take graduate courses and demonstrate your skills. Some programs will let you transfer a certain number of courses from the certificate to your degree, which is something to look into.

You need to narrow down your research interests. They still seem very vague.

Yea, they do seem vague. Since your GPA isn't the best, OP, you'll need to be pretty specific in your statement of purpose and make solid contacts with potential advisors. So far I've read Southeast Asian development and GIS. These could go together but often don't. Geography programs emphasize in-depth fieldwork, so you'll probably have to narrow your interests down to one particular country, particularly for a master's.

- Your language skills could be a pretty huge advantage if you're planning on studying a topic related to those regions or related to human geography and immigrant populations who speak those languages.

I totally agree on the language skills. Valuable asset for doing fieldwork (see above).

In general, I would tell you (as I just did over on the Geography forum) to look for master's programs. Why? Because the majority of the MA/MS programs in geography offer funding to their students. I know your professor mentioned Washington but be aware that it's one of the top programs in the country with an incredibly competitive funding situation (in part because they sometimes only give out 1 quarter of funding at a time, though I hear they're working on this). I don't actually know schools that are strong in Southeast Asia but you'll probably want to look for programs with resources within and beyond the geography department. Geography is interdisciplinary and it can be key to find other folks on campus (in history, sociology, anthropology, etc.) that you can work with and to help you along the way.

I am also very interested in the development of south east Asia. (That's why I studied abroad in Vietnam and minored in Asian studies.) Particularly the countries that share the banks of the Mekong River: Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam. How they have developed since the second world war. Why they are still considered third world countries, and what programs are being conducted to improve the standards of living in those countries.

BTW, I don't think the question of "Why they are still considered third world countries" is one that you should list in your statement of purpose. There are already a host of answers to this question readily available. It becomes more interesting if you can present versions of development that contest this status as third world.

[stigMPA]

Some great advice here. Some observations and suggestions:

1) Are you thinking more along developmental lines or urban studies? Something else? Put another way, what do you want to research? GIS is a tool, not a subject of study in and of itself. You have a lot of thinking to do before you write your statement of purpose.

2) While you are still in school try to secure your letters of recommendation. You will be fresh in the writer's minds and I'm told it's a huge hassle to track people down later. Applying to grad school properly is a lot of work and believe me you won't want to be dealing with all of this in 6 months - there will be plenty on your plate.

3) Since you have elected to take a gap year, try to make the most of it. Take GIS and remote sensing courses and read up on recent scholarship. You can turn the break into a huge benefit if you can refine your interests and do some meaningful work. When you are in the interview stage it will be important that you have put in some independent effort after not focusing on these subjects as an undergrad,

[rising_star]

3) Since you have elected to take a gap year, try to make the most of it. Take GIS and remote sensing courses and read up on recent scholarship. You can turn the break into a huge benefit if you can refine your interests and do some meaningful work. When you are in the interview stage it will be important that you have put in some independent effort after not focusing on these subjects as an undergrad,

As a point of clarification, I just want to say that I have never heard of any geography programs doing interviews. Some will invite you to visit campus (either paid or not) after you get accepted but interviews just aren't done. Your chance to wow and impress people really comes in your personal statement, since a lot of programs don't ask for writing samples. In addition, I wouldn't underestimate the value of making contact and discussing interests with potential advisors beforehand. 1) You can learn that someone isn't accepting any new students (which would save you the money of applying). 2) You can see if your interests actually align or if the faculty are doing research on new things which aren't reflected on their webpages or in their publications yet.

I'm big on the meaningful contact before applying to schools because it saved me from wasting money (person I wanted to work with wasn't taking on new students) and because it was from that contact, and hanging out when he came to visit my MA institution to give an invited lecture, that I got to know my advisor and was the basis for him accepting me. Apparently he never even read my file... (Yea, he told me that, about 7 months after I got here).

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

I got to chat with 2 of my environmental studies/geography profs. today and they helped me define some goals.

One is from Brazil and specializes in Amazon spatial analysis and South American economics while the other is a China expert and specializes in water quality. Both of these guys are my favorite profs. Unfortunately They weren't hired at HWS until I was a Junior.

They gave me 3 paths that I could follow:

-Become a Prof. and stay in Academia, "publish or perish" especially at research universities. Look into geography, sustainable development: environmental studies, water, agriculture and development.

-Go into Gov't: USGS, NOAA, USAID/state dept.

-Private sector: ESRI, Consulting etc.

Then they asked me to figure out for myself why geography is a good fit? (vs. what I've done so far.)

And that I should plan on having about 2-3 pages of "why?" questions.

My current GIS prof. (the guy from Brazil) recommended that I try and find a graduate prof. at a graduate school who is currently studying South East Asia who might be looking for a native Thai speaker. Don't know how difficult I will be to actually do that but hey it's worth a try at least.

My Geography prof. (China expert) asked me hypothetically what's wrong with what I already have with my BA and I told him that I felt that it hasn't really answered all my questions or given the feeling of having figured something inside and out. With my econ background coupled with my environmental studies, I've learned that markets work in theory but they are not very personal. When it comes down to the real world, geography plays a huge part in how entire economies function. Lately I've been reading about the Solow growth function and how infrastructure and technology go hand in hand to the development of an economy. I think I'm going off on a tangent here but I see direct connections between human productivity and their surroundings. Significance of place I feel is very important to people on a personal level.

I was also told to look into institutions that are outside of the U.S. Namely NUS or National University of Singapore. (Not really a big move for me since I spent most of my childhood there.)

[rising_star]

I don't think you need to look outside of the US to pursue your interests unless you really want to. I also think there are more career paths with a geography master's (or PhD) than your profs have told you. For example, a fair number of geography grads get government jobs at the local or regional level, rather than at the federal level. So that's definitely something that's out there. As are any number of private sector jobs that aren't ESRI or consulting but are looking for someone with a particular skill set. The degree really is what you make of it. Why? Because in one geography department you'll find someone doing climate reconstructions based on tree rings, someone else reconstructing fire history based on fire scars in tree rings, someone exploring the convergence between political imaginaries and anarchist political theory, someone doing policy-oriented social science work, and someone else working on a new method for classifying specific crops based on remotely sensed imagery. And at the end of it, they'll all have a degree that says "Geography", you know what I mean?

I also don't agree with the approach of finding someone that needs a Thai speaker. Why? Because then you'll have to work on whatever that person wants, rather than working on what you want. Not that I'm expert or anything but I did apply to MA programs in fall 05 and PhD programs last year, with great success both times. What you really want is an institution that offers classes that you want to take, an advisor who will help you not only figure out what you want to do but also help you do it, and funding. None of that requires leaving the country or selling yourself to someone just because they want a Thai speaker. Oh, and if you're interested in sense of place, you should read some Yu-Fi Tuan. Also, I have no idea why you would need 2-3 pgs of Why questions. Did they give you a reason?

If you want to talk further, feel free to send me a PM or email.

[less-than-3.0 too :(]

The "why questions" is just so that I can come back and discuss with them on how to construct a good SOP. But yes I see what you mean. I really don't want to become a research slave for someone else. Thanks for the advice.