How should I ask why they rejected me?

[JessePinkman]

Hi, 

I got rejected from TAMU-College Station today and it was my first choice. I saw people with less good profiles than mine get in. I'm really disappointed since this was my first choice. Now I'm even considering applying next fall! But I want to know what was the reason they rejected me so I can work on it. How should I go abt it?

[TheGirlWhoLived]

Just explain to them what you said on here (minus the part of less qualified people getting in). Say that you would like to apply again next year and would really like to know how to improve your application. Politely ask for feedback. 

[Sol Invictus]

I agree with TheGirlWhoLived. I have been on the same boat last fall. Just tell them that it's your dream school and you would want to attend it so it would really help you out if the DoGS can tell you where your application file was lacking so that you can make up for it the next time you apply. You can also ask about the profile of current admitted batch, so that you can get an idea of where you stand. 

[JessePinkman]

Actually i know most of the profiles of the students who got in. And looking at some of the profiles that got in, I really dont think I shouldve been rejected. thanks for the reply both of you though. I'll email them right away!

[JessePinkman]

They replied me as follows :

 

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the decision not to offer you admission at this time.  After careful consideration of the hundreds of competitive applications that came in just for the Department of Civil Engineering, there were simply not enough slots open to take everyone we would like.

 

Please feel free to reapply for a future semester and make sure to review anything that you may improve on.  The University requirement for the GRE is a minimum verbal score of 146 (400) and the higher the score, the more competitive you will become.  The University minimum for the TOEFL is a 79 (550) or IELTS 6.5. The Civil Engineering Department requires a TOEFL 100 (600) or IELTS 7.0 to remain competitive.

 

 

Man this is a really vague reply! :/ minimum of 146 they say, ive got 160! 100 on toefl to remain competitive they say, I've got 110! :/ I know my GPA is on the low side, but my friend with a similar gpa and less GRE score got in. :/

[Rolling Circles]

They replied me as follows :

 

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the decision not to offer you admission at this time.  After careful consideration of the hundreds of competitive applications that came in just for the Department of Civil Engineering, there were simply not enough slots open to take everyone we would like.

 

Please feel free to reapply for a future semester and make sure to review anything that you may improve on.  The University requirement for the GRE is a minimum verbal score of 146 (400) and the higher the score, the more competitive you will become.  The University minimum for the TOEFL is a 79 (550) or IELTS 6.5. The Civil Engineering Department requires a TOEFL 100 (600) or IELTS 7.0 to remain competitive.

 

 

Man this is a really vague reply! :/ minimum of 146 they say, ive got 160! 100 on toefl to remain competitive they say, I've got 110! :/ I know my GPA is on the low side, but my friend with a similar gpa and less GRE score got in. :/

It also comes down to your research experience and letters of recommendation.  Also, just because someone may appear less qualified on paper doesn't necessarily mean that they are.

[JessePinkman]

I know! But they are my classmates and friends! So i know them really well and i know they are not more qualified than me! we took the letter of recommendations from the same people! and they have no research experience at all (same as mine). But i also have an internship in the relevant field which they dont. so it really doesnt make sense! I am really happy for my friends though! We had decided we would go together but now theyre going and i am stuck here! Btw congrats on your Purdue admit. I might be heading to Purdue too as i got accepted there. If i decide to go this year its going to be Purdue ! otherwise i'll reapply next year!

[TheGirlWhoLived]

Sorry, that was very vague. I would have thought a response from the DGS would be more detailed.

I don't know your field, but it seems like you got into some very good schools still. Two of my cousins went to Purdue

[JessePinkman]

The thing is i am on a tight budget here. And TAMU would have costed me nearly half of Purdue. So I am in a dilemma wether to go or wait 1 year and try for TAMU again next year. I can defer my Purdue admission by 1 year. So even if i dont get into TAMU next year I would still have  Purdue with me!

[HKsai]

I would definitely go to Purdue if money isn't a problem. From what I heard that Purdue has an amazing civil engineering program. I have one friend that's planning to apply there. Well and also the ranking is pretty high too. I wouldn't wanna go to a school that gives me such vague non-constructive criticism lol

[Rolling Circles]

The thing is i am on a tight budget here. And TAMU would have costed me nearly half of Purdue. So I am in a dilemma wether to go or wait 1 year and try for TAMU again next year. I can defer my Purdue admission by 1 year. So even if i dont get into TAMU next year I would still have  Purdue with me!

 

Well living in Lafayette is pretty cheap at least.  It'll cost me almost half to live coming from California.

[bsharpe269]

It doesnt really all come down to numbers and GRE scores actually dont mean much. It sounds like your numbers are up to their expectations so I bet his SOP was more in line with what they wanted or his recommendation letters were better (even if they were from the same people, his could still be better if the professors liked him a bit more or something).

 

In engineering, work experience before a master can definitely be helpful anyway. It sounds like you have other good choices or could find a good job and apply again next year. Good luck!

[JessePinkman]

It doesnt really all come down to numbers and GRE scores actually dont mean much. It sounds like your numbers are up to their expectations so I bet his SOP was more in line with what they wanted or his recommendation letters were better (even if they were from the same people, his could still be better if the professors liked him a bit more or something).

In engineering, work experience before a master can definitely be helpful anyway. It sounds like you have other good choices or could find a good job and apply again next year. Good luck!

Hey thanks for the reply. Maybe it was the SOP, maybe it wasnt. Coz we've discussed our SOPs and the ideas we focused on were pretty much the same. Anyways I'll tell you a fun fact about recommendation letters. Here in India we the students ourselves write the recommendation letters and the professor just reviews them and sends them to the Universities. The situation is pathetic really. They think its a waste of time writing the recommendation letters and most of them aren't even good at English to write it. So they just tell the student to write it.

Edited April 20, 2014 by JessePinkman

[Sol Invictus]

I'm also an Indian so I know where you're going with this. It wouldn't really help you out though in the long run. What you just mentioned is not a generic practice, so I would ask you to refrain from making such comments on a public forum, for it brings a shoddy image to all candidates coming in from india - which is highly unacceptable. Can I tell you a 'fun' fact?  If your friends discussed their essays and outlined similar questions, have similar profiles and 'self-drafted-letters', then they were better and more mature writers. 

 

Anyhow, as someone pointed out in the previous posts, apart from GRE scores, letters, etc., your essay plays a pivotal role in your admission. Graduate school is not a cakewalk. It tells the committee what kind of person you are and if you are prepared enough mentally to tackle it head on. What the committee also strongly looks at is the 'right fit' of the candidate. Maybe a professor in their intended area of research had an opening and yours didn't. If I were you, I would definitely pick the best school I have from my current options. 

Edited April 20, 2014 by Sol Invictus

[JessePinkman]

Okay! But the situation needs to change really and hiding it wil only make it worse. And about the image it brings to Indian students, it doesnt matter really. Indians wherever they go excel in their field or are atleast in the top half of their classes. So Indians are always held in high regard academia wise! Anyways thanks everyone for the replies.

[Sol Invictus]

If you want to present such an image of yours in front of everyone else, that is fine. But you have no right to impose and categorize other people.

Just because Indians succeed in their academic endeavors doesn't make it justifiable for someone coming from the same system (or anyone for that matter) to denigrate their accomplishments, does it? 

 

Consider this : You know the situation isn't the best out in India. Considering you haven't had similar opportunities as compared to someone from a more organized educational system, you come here and you work your ass off in graduate school and make it big eventually. Well, congratulations to you! How would you like it when a person who has no clue whatsoever what it takes to reach that stage and what you had to go through tells you that 'it doesn't matter because Indians always succeed?'. No one chooses to succeed in life. You have to endure failures even with your 100% efforts to get there. So learn to be more appreciative of others is all I ask. 

[JessePinkman]

Well you have taken this all in a wrong way. I never intended to denigrate anyone's accomplishments. What I wanted to say is the same thing you're saying! Most Indians do work their ass off thats why they succeed! And thats why they should be praised and thats why our image is a good one. This also doesnt mean that people from other countries don't. I'm only talking in the sense of Indians here! 

[JessePinkman]

Anyways I'm sorry if my comment offended you or anyone! Peace!

[TakeruK]

Actually i know most of the profiles of the students who got in. And looking at some of the profiles that got in, I really dont think I shouldve been rejected. thanks for the reply both of you though. I'll email them right away!

 

I think this is the comment that sticks out to me the most. I am not from India but I also come from a culture that values academic achievement in a way similar to India (I think). So, from the point of view of an outsider, my honest opinion is that comments like this really show a student to be immature. 

 

In my opinion, success in North America (maybe most of the world too, but my experience is only in North America) is not defined by things like test scores, grades and CV experience. Your comment here sounds very arrogant and entitled to me. It sounds like you expected to get into more/better places than your friends because your profile is slightly better than theirs. Graduate school admission is not a game where you get "points" for high scores etc and then the one with the most points get in. I think there are a lot of factors that cannot be quantified when it comes to admissions, for example--how would you "fit" in with what the department is currently looking for.

 

The other part that I thought was entitled sounding was that it sounds like you felt the schools owed you an explanation because they rejected you. This is not how it works--you might be able to ask for tips on how to improve next time, but it's rare to get an actual reason for rejection. Part of the reason is that they don't remember or note the exact reason for every single rejection they give and the other part is probably to avoid people trying to defend themselves or trying to change the school's mind. Unless you have good reason to suspect wrongdoing, the professional thing is to accept that the school does not want you and move on. 

 

Anyways I wish you the best and I hope you consider what others have said to you in this thread and consider more deeply how your comments might impact other people in the future!

[JessePinkman]

I dont know why you got offended so easily. The thing about North America you mentioned (success in North America is not defined by things like test scores, grades and CV experience) is the exact reason why hordes of students from India  are moving to US for their higher education. Because here in India all that matters is test scores, grades and CV. And its a simple thing if you think youre better than someone else its natural to expect better. Should I expect worse? I didnt even say they shouldnt give admits to such students and should admit me. I just said looking at those profiles I expected an admit. Nothing wrong in that. And the profiles I'm talking abt are not of my friends. They are of diff people who applied. My friends' and my profile are similar. Thats why I was disappointed when they rejected me. And its natural to be disappointed. And please dont judge people. Because youve judged me wrong. By asking why they rejected me I was hoping to get tips on how to improve next time and not asking for a whole explanation as to why they rejected me. Anyways thanks for the reply but don't judge people. 

Edited April 21, 2014 by JessePinkman

[Vene]

I dont know why you got offended so easily.

It's not about offense, you've gotten constructive criticism so far and your actions in this thread do make you appear to be immature.

The thing about North America you mentioned (success in North America is not defined by things like test scores, grades and CV experience) is the exact reason why hordes of students from India  are moving to US for their higher education. Because here in India all that matters is test scores, grades and CV. And its a simple thing if you think youre better than someone else its natural to expect better.

This may be a cultural difference, but what you wrote here reads as immaturity. No, you're not better than they are. You have abilities to offer and so do they, including ones which are very difficult to quantify. And if Indians know that US schools don't define applicants based on test scores alone, then why would you expect an offer based on test scores alone?

Should I expect worse? I didnt even say they shouldnt give admits to such students and should admit me. I just said looking at those profiles I expected an admit. Nothing wrong in that. And the profiles I'm talking abt are not of my friends. They are of diff people who applied. My friends' and my profile are similar. Thats why I was disappointed when they rejected me. And its natural to be disappointed. And please dont judge people. Because youve judged me wrong. By asking why they rejected me I was hoping to get tips on how to improve next time and not asking for a whole explanation as to why they rejected me. Anyways thanks for the reply but don't judge people.

Disappointment is fine and natural. You have every right to be disappointed. But, part of being mature is to accept that you didn't get what you want and move on with your life. At least, that's the attitude here. You got into good universities and will have plenty of opportunities. Edited April 21, 2014 by Vene

[ss2player]

I just said looking at those profiles I expected an admit. Nothing wrong in that.

 

I don't think you read TakeruK's post there, chief.

[TakeruK]

And its a simple thing if you think youre better than someone else its natural to expect better. Should I expect worse? I didnt even say they shouldnt give admits to such students and should admit me. I just said looking at those profiles I expected an admit. Nothing wrong in that. And the profiles I'm talking abt are not of my friends. They are of diff people who applied. My friends' and my profile are similar.

 

The part I called arrogant was the part where you say you are better than someone else without really knowing these other people. I think this is arrogant because:

 

1) You are not the graduate admissions committee. How do you know whether or not you are actually better than another applicant. That is, you are not qualified to make statements on who should / should not get admitted to any particular program (not saying I am qualified either--most of us here are also graduate students, not faculty members!). So I think it is arrogant that you imply you know more about what is a "good fit" for graduate school than the committees that decide this.

 

2) You have limited information on these people. For your friends, you probably do know more about their entire profiles since you know them personally, but for the "other people", if you are just comparing their online profiles, you are basically just making a judgement on a few numbers! So, I think it is arrogant to assume that you are better than these other people because your numbers are better. You don't know all the information!

 

Thats why I was disappointed when they rejected me. And its natural to be disappointed. And please dont judge people. Because youve judged me wrong. By asking why they rejected me I was hoping to get tips on how to improve next time and not asking for a whole explanation as to why they rejected me. Anyways thanks for the reply but don't judge people. 

I agree that it's natural and normal and healthy to be disappointed when things don't work out. But the mature path forward is to figure out how to improve for the future (as you said here). The immature reaction would be to try to find fault with the system and shifting the blame to someone/something else. For example, your statements about how other people with "worse" profiles than you got in. If they got in and you did not, wouldn't it be true, by definition, that these people had better profiles than you? 

 

Perhaps you don't intend to say arrogant/immature things about the other applicants. I should clarify--I meant that your actions here are arrogant and immature, but I don't really know anything about you as a person. You might be a great person! I am sorry if I insinuated otherwise. But even good people make mistakes sometimes and sometimes it's hard to see the impact of your statements because you know your own intention. The impact of what you say resonate with people much more than the intent, though. This was why many people reacted to your statements in this way and which is why I thought I would bring it up to let you know!

[JessePinkman]

The profiles I'm talking abt are the profiles of Indian applicants and we have a large group of Indian applicants of the same field on Facebook and we have discussed each others profiles. So maybe i do know a lot about their profiles? And anyways I've already moved on. I have decided to apply again next Fall. I'll try and improve my profile in the time I have got and hopefully I'll end up there. Sorry if anyone was hurt by my comments. And to be honest I think they didnt accept me because they simply didnt have enough slots left. I personally know I was good enough to get this University. If not this year, it'll be next year.