Entering my second year at Harris

[Reasonablyterrified]

Used this board a lot when I was looking at schools etc. I applied to several schools, got into 4, and ended up at Harris. I'm happy to talk about Harris as a whole, but first I'd like to lay out some basics for everyone:

Jobs: I've had an interview with a large investment bank (public finance), a ratings agency, and two municipal finance advisory firms (one of whom I'll be with this summer). As a whole career services here is pretty bad. They've had turnover and have made new hires to rectify the situation, unfortunately, it will be a year or two before they likely see results.

Classes: The core here is a joke, not in how easy it is (it's pretty hard), but in what skills it actually teaches you. Econ and Econ 2 are great (universally respected). Stats and Stats 2 are fine (we had a fill in prof for Stats 2 that wasn't great, but the full time is supposed to be better. Then comes the weird ones. Public Economy is scientology. I'm only partially kidding. Complicated math equations to determine the optimal amount of effort a mechanic should make based upon quantifying his effort and rewards (not monetary, actually quantifying effort). Political Institutions isn't hard if you've done A.P. U.S Government in high school. Decisions and Organizations is another extremely hard management class that only PhD students will ever use again. If you're good at game theory (which has little real world application), you'll get by Political Econ and Decisions and Organizations. If you aren't...well...

Staff: Very good, well respected. I'm extremely happy with how many have offered to write recommendations for me. Very intelligent and accomplished as a whole. A one year student here took a total of 9 classes and had two taught by Nobel Prize winners. I would take classes again with 75% of the professors I've had SPECIFICALLY to have them as professors.

Facilities: Our school has 5 classrooms and one lecture hall. I've taken Harris courses that were held in the Law School, the Chemistry labs, and the Social Sciences school. I've seen Heinz, Goldman, and Kennedy. None of them are great (Kennedy is probably best).

Would I do it again...probably not. If I got into Harvard, I woulda gone there...wish I had. I wouldn't have liked Goldman. CMU is an interesting alternative. Oh well, I'm going to graduate and be just fine from here.

I'll ad more later, especially should anyone have questions.

[MJA87]

Thanks a lot for your insight. Would you mind letting us know what your stats were (GPA, GRE, work experience, ect..) and how much funding you were offered at your accepted schools? I feel like how much a degree is costing you is a huge factor in the "is it worth it"/"would I do it again" equation.

 

I'm interested in both Harris and Goldman; why don't you think you would have liked Goldman?

 

I'll probably think of more questions when I get home, thanks again for sharing.

[Reasonablyterrified]

So Goldman tends to be geared towards not-for-profits (at least when I looked at their career area it looked like most of their graduates went that way). Harris does a ton of economics work so we have a lot leave here and go into Econ fields (banking, IMF, ratings agencies, etc.). That's the reason I came here, because these fields are what I'm interested in. As for money, Harris isn't very generous, so I received very little. My desired careers all pay $6 figures, so debt isn't as scary as if I wanted to do MFP work. Harvard is less quant-y, and seems to produce better career results in what I'm interested in.

[albuhhh]

Thanks for this. I've got extensions currently deciding between Heinz and Harris, and also waiting for Goldman's waitlist, so this is super helpful.

 

Many comments were made about the career services during the visit weekend. Can you talk a little about how you found your interviews? Is it an every person for himself/herself situation?

 

Do you feel like the core is too inflexible/impractical? How did you find the class sizes, since it seems that all students are in those classes at the same time?

 

How are the courses curved? I saw that Harris's academic probation barrier is a 2.7, where most MPP programs are at a 3.0. This makes me think that the curve is harsher.

[Reasonablyterrified]

The rating agencies come and recruit at the school, the big guys (Morningstar, S&P, Fitch, Moodys), all have offices in Chicago, so it isn't incredibly hard to get noticed there. Everything I've gotten in banking was through contacts from my network or from simply reaching out to local companies (a lot of Harris and/or UChicago alums are in the Chicago area obviously). Recruiters do come through, but the school doesn't do a great job of maintaining a Harris network (in my opinion). We are seeing turnover in the career office as I mentioned earlier, I don't know what the long term impact of this will be. 

 

As for the core, well...it's the University of Chicago, you're going to get economics. Both of the econ professors I've had are world class. Statistics are fine, I'm probably not going to really like those classes either way, and like I said our class got a substitute for Stats 2 (who is an accomplished statistician, but that didn't translate into being a great teacher in my opinion). Then come these weird classes that have no value to anyone except PhD's. Game theory and game theory 2 (they aren't called these, but it's what they amount to). Really hard and useless math that has no real world value. For Political Economy (game theory), the professor gives you the "book" in .pdf form (it isn't published) and told our class we would get extra credit for every typo we found. I'm not kidding, he asked us to copy edit our own text books (small aside: I think he lied about the extra credit for finding typos because I don't believe anyone got any). This is an embarrasment in my opinion.

 

I'm going to be able to accomplish what I came to school for, and my career goals pay enough to make the finanical difference less important, but I think I'm going to be really glad to get out of here, which is too bad for a grad school experience. I should say i really like a lot of my fellow students and we do have a lot of fun when we aren't in crunch time, I just wish I felt like more of the courses I am being forced to take were relevant to anyone's career aspirations.

[harrista]

On 4/21/2014 at 5:25 PM, albuhhh said:

Thanks for this. I've got extensions currently deciding between Heinz and Harris, and also waiting for Goldman's waitlist, so this is super helpful.

 

Many comments were made about the career services during the visit weekend. Can you talk a little about how you found your interviews? Is it an every person for himself/herself situation?

 

Do you feel like the core is too inflexible/impractical? How did you find the class sizes, since it seems that all students are in those classes at the same time?

 

How are the courses curved? I saw that Harris's academic probation barrier is a 2.7, where most MPP programs are at a 3.0. This makes me think that the curve is harsher.

 

Also a first year Harris student here.  If you're looking for an internship / job in the Chicago area you're pretty much up against all your classmates so it does get competitive there but no one's a jerk about it.

 

The size of core classes depends on the professor, so for example in first quarter our core classes were with the entire cohort (minus those who waived out or took advanced options).  In the second quarter, microeconomics was split between two profs, each running two sessions so the class sizes were probably around 30-40.  I had zero background in econ/stats/political theory/math and I found that each quarter I had one subject that I loved and the rest were meh.  I got nothing out of the course on political institutions but it was super easy so it didn't take up much energy.  As for Game Theory 2 that ReasonablyTerrified mentions, I'm taking an approved substitute management class at Booth which I'm really enjoying.  

 

As for the curve, the prevailing wisdom is that "the curve is there to help".  And it does, although I have no idea how it compares to other schools.  

 

On 4/21/2014 at 3:07 PM, MJA87 said:

Thanks a lot for your insight. Would you mind letting us know what your stats were (GPA, GRE, work experience, ect..) and how much funding you were offered at your accepted schools? I feel like how much a degree is costing you is a huge factor in the "is it worth it"/"would I do it again" equation.

 

I'm interested in both Harris and Goldman; why don't you think you would have liked Goldman?

 

I'll probably think of more questions when I get home, thanks again for sharing.

 

My choice also came down to Harris and Goldman and the funding decided it.  I was accepted at Harris ($$$$), Goldman ($), Heinz ($$), Wagner, Evans and rejected from WWS.  I have no idea how funding is awarded but I assume that GRE scores play a significant role since it's the one common standard for all applicants.  For what it's worth, my scores were Q 164 V 170 AW 5.5, my GPA was 3.72 and I had about 6-7 years post graduation work experience in the public service.   

[siddhu666]

Also a first year Harris student here.  If you're looking for an internship / job in the Chicago area you're pretty much up against all your classmates so it does get competitive there but no one's a jerk about it.

 

The size of core classes depends on the professor, so for example in first quarter our core classes were with the entire cohort (minus those who waived out or took advanced options).  In the second quarter, microeconomics was split between two profs, each running two sessions so the class sizes were probably around 30-40.  I had zero background in econ/stats/political theory/math and I found that each quarter I had one subject that I loved and the rest were meh.  I got nothing out of the course on political institutions but it was super easy so it didn't take up much energy.  As for Game Theory 2 that ReasonablyTerrified mentions, I'm taking an approved substitute management class at Booth which I'm really enjoying.  

 

As for the curve, the prevailing wisdom is that "the curve is there to help".  And it does, although I have no idea how it compares to other schools.  

 

 

My choice also came down to Harris and Goldman and the funding decided it.  I was accepted at Chicago Harris ($$$$), Berkeley Goldman ($), CMU Heinz ($$), NYU Wagner, UWash Evans and rejected from WWS.  I have no idea how funding is awarded but I assume that GRE scores play a significant role since it's the one common standard for all applicants.  For what it's worth, my scores were Q 164 V 170 AW 5.5, my GPA was 3.72 and I had about 6-7 years post graduation work experience in the public service.   

 

 

Used this board a lot when I was looking at schools etc. I applied to several schools, got into 4, and ended up at Harris. I'm happy to talk about Harris as a whole, but first I'd like to lay out some basics for everyone:

Jobs: I've had an interview with a large investment bank (public finance), a ratings agency, and two municipal finance advisory firms (one of whom I'll be with this summer). As a whole career services here is pretty bad. They've had turnover and have made new hires to rectify the situation, unfortunately, it will be a year or two before they likely see results.

Classes: The core here is a joke, not in how easy it is (it's pretty hard), but in what skills it actually teaches you. Econ and Econ 2 are great (universally respected). Stats and Stats 2 are fine (we had a fill in prof for Stats 2 that wasn't great, but the full time is supposed to be better. Then comes the weird ones. Public Economy is scientology. I'm only partially kidding. Complicated math equations to determine the optimal amount of effort a mechanic should make based upon quantifying his effort and rewards (not monetary, actually quantifying effort). Political Institutions isn't hard if you've done A.P. U.S Government in high school. Decisions and Organizations is another extremely hard management class that only PhD students will ever use again. If you're good at game theory (which has little real world application), you'll get by Political Econ and Decisions and Organizations. If you aren't...well...

Staff: Very good, well respected. I'm extremely happy with how many have offered to write recommendations for me. Very intelligent and accomplished as a whole. A one year student here took a total of 9 classes and had two taught by Nobel Prize winners. I would take classes again with 75% of the professors I've had SPECIFICALLY to have them as professors.

Facilities: Our school has 5 classrooms and one lecture hall. I've taken Harris courses that were held in the Law School, the Chemistry labs, and the Social Sciences school. I've seen Heinz, Goldman, and Kennedy. None of them are great (Kennedy is probably best).

Would I do it again...probably not. If I got into Harvard, I woulda gone there...wish I had. I wouldn't have liked Goldman. CMU is an interesting alternative. Oh well, I'm going to graduate and be just fine from here.

I'll ad more later, especially should anyone have questions.

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences  Reasonablyterrified & harrista.

I have secured admission in Harris for the fall 2014 session, but without any funding.

 

I have heard that it is really hard for international students to get good jobs after graduation, since many are govt. agencies, or many companies don't want to take the trouble of going through the visa process for the new recruits. I am from India, with about 4 years of NGO experience.

I would have to take a loan for the course. How do you feel about that? Any advice would be really helpful.

Could you please give me an idea about the starting salaries I could expect after passing out, in general? If you have any additional information which could help international students like me, I would highly appreciate it.

Thanks!

[harrista]

Thanks for sharing your experiences  Reasonablyterrified & harrista.

I have secured admission in Harris for the fall 2014 session, but without any funding.

 

I have heard that it is really hard for international students to get good jobs after graduation, since many are govt. agencies, or many companies don't want to take the trouble of going through the visa process for the new recruits. I am from India, with about 4 years of NGO experience.

I would have to take a loan for the course. How do you feel about that? Any advice would be really helpful.

Could you please give me an idea about the starting salaries I could expect after passing out, in general? If you have any additional information which could help international students like me, I would highly appreciate it.

Thanks!

 

I've heard from second year international students that it's hard to get a job in the US after graduating, but I also don't know many American second years who have got things lined up at this stage.  The type of visa (F-1) that international students have mean you don't need sponsorship (for the first year) so you just have to make sure that's clear to potential employers, but yes you will be ineligible for basically all permanent government positions.  I have no idea on starting salaries - there's a huge range of interests so the people that go into consulting would make way more than those who are aiming to get into not for profit or government work. 

 

I personally wouldn't take a loan for this course since I'm a public servant and not expecting to make big money after I graduate. I also still have undergrad loans.  It was hard to turn down Berkeley since that was my dream school when I was applying but I had to follow the money and I have zero regrets about coming to Harris.  Good luck with your decision! 

[siddhu666]

I've heard from second year international students that it's hard to get a job in the US after graduating, but I also don't know many American second years who have got things lined up at this stage.  The type of visa (F-1) that international students have mean you don't need sponsorship (for the first year) so you just have to make sure that's clear to potential employers, but yes you will be ineligible for basically all permanent government positions.  I have no idea on starting salaries - there's a huge range of interests so the people that go into consulting would make way more than those who are aiming to get into not for profit or government work. 

 

I personally wouldn't take a loan for this course since I'm a public servant and not expecting to make big money after I graduate. I also still have undergrad loans.  It was hard to turn down Berkeley since that was my dream school when I was applying but I had to follow the money and I have zero regrets about coming to Harris.  Good luck with your decision! 

Thanks a lot harrista! Seems I'll have to skip this year.

I am thinking that if I am going to spend this kind of money, I should rather go in for an MBA instead. Thanks again!

 

Edited April 24, 2014 by siddhu666

[IbnRushd]

Thanks for this useful comments. I have been accepted to the MA in Middle Eastern Studies at UChicago and I was thinking of maybe applying to do a joint degree with the MPP, but I'm not sure if would not be better to simply do some classes offered by Harris as part of the MA instead. Any thoughts?

[harrista]

Thanks for this useful comments. I have been accepted to the MA in Middle Eastern Studies at UChicago and I was thinking of maybe applying to do a joint degree with the MPP, but I'm not sure if would not be better to simply do some classes offered by Harris as part of the MA instead. Any thoughts?

 

Have a look at the Harris course offerings and see how many of them you want to do:  http://harrisschool.uchicago.edu/degrees/courses

 

If you do a joint degree with the MPP, I imagine that you'll mostly be taking the core classes and not so many of the electives which may be more interesting to you.  The core classes are microeconomics I and II, statistics I and II and three political economy/polisci courses.  One of the great things about the MPP is that you can take a lot of classes from other faculties so this quarter when we get electives for the first time, pretty much everyone I know is taking something from another school whether it's the business school, dept of economics or law.