Current grad student...chances for the Ph.D.?

[Cog-Neuro Guy]

I completed my B.A. in sociology with a minor in psychology at the University of North Texas. After graduating, I applied to and have been attending the M.S. in applied cognition and neuroscience program at UT-Dallas while also being the direct research assistant for the chief of psychology at UT Southwestern Medical Center. I am considering applying for some sociology Ph.D. programs this coming fall, however, I am wanting to gauge my "worth." 

 

Undergrad School: UNT

Overall Undergrad GPA: 3.22

Major (Sociology) GPA: 3.77

Minor (Psychology) GPA: 3.60

Last 60 Hours GPA: 3.73

 

GRE: Q and V are both <50%, AW is a 4.5 (78%)

 

I have 3 posters being presented at the National Academy of Neuropsychology this November as a second author on all of them. I am a second author on a manuscript with my mentor at UTSW and will be completing at least 1 manuscript with a neurologist this summer and possibly another manuscript with my mentor before this fall. I was a classical musician for 15 years, my first year of undergraduate studies was at a music conservatory which really dented my academic record (these were all music-related courses FYI). I completed my core requirements for a B.A. at a local 2-year college here in Texas and transferred to UNT where I completed my B.A.

 

I am not considering any top programs (just being realistic). My interests within sociology are economic sociology, LGBT communities and theory. I have not yet made an exhaustive list of programs. I may apply to my alma mater (UNT) or TWU (these aren't even ranked programs from what I have been told).

 

Any ideas, thoughts? 

[bsharpe269]

Im a different field but am also going from MS to phd programs...

 

What does your MS GPA look like? I would try to get your GRE scores up for sure. Studying makes a huge difference. If you get those up and have a good MS GPA then I htink you have a shot at top schools! I would apply to a few top programs, a few middle range, adn a few lower ranked. Of course, research fit is more important than rank so apply wherever the good research fits are.

[Cog-Neuro Guy]

3.5 GPA in the M.S. at the moment, with 6 hours as Pass/Fail research credit and 12 hours being for a letter grade so far. This was my first year in the program. To be honest...I am not wanting to touch the GRE again, I simply cannot bring myself to study for it nor could I justify making myself do it (despite my goal of the Ph.D.). For what it's worth, if they are worried about my quantitative abilities, I took two statistics courses in my undergrad and got A's in both. I will be taking two graduate level research methods courses this coming year in which I hope to also be in the A range. If they are worried about my abilities to function within my first year of graduate school, considering I spent my entire undergrad studying society and stratification and next thing you know I am learning the cellular mechanisms involved in neuropharmacology, I would say I have a good aptitude for learning new material . 

[Darth.Vegan]

Sorry to say but if you're looking to top programs, you need to pull those GRE scores above 50%, and the verbal should be above 75-80. 
 

It's not impossible, but while your undergrad and grad GPA aren't that low, they aren't exactly stellar either. Those two combined will hurt a bit. 

[bsharpe269]

yep i agree with above that youll have a tough time getting into PhD programs. I am also doing an MS and will be retakng the GRE. Sure, it sucks but I think that it could make the difference between getting into a program or not for you.

[faculty]

I agree with xdarthveganx, the combination will likely hurt you. If people read far enough to see you've taken stats and have other relevant experience in your background/training, that might help, but they have to read far enough. I would definitely put it in your statement.

 

Honestly, to say that you can't bring yourself to do something, or make yourself do it, is a red flag. Earning a PhD is about pulling yourself out of your comfort zone and often doing a number of things that you don't really want to do with the long-term goal of accomplishing something that you can't imagine not doing.

 

All that said, the two programs you're interested in right now won't be nearly as tough as others to get into so you'd probably be fine. It is if you aspire to higher ranked programs that you really should think about retaking the GRE or ensuring that every other part of your packet is mind-blowing. My program sometimes bets on people with low GREs, but only if they have something else that really makes them stand out. And, even then, only if someone looks hard enough to find that quality or experience and can convince the rest of the committee that it signals something.

[Cog-Neuro Guy]

Sorry to say but if you're looking to top programs, you need to pull those GRE scores above 50%, and the verbal should be above 75-80. 

 

It's not impossible, but while your undergrad and grad GPA aren't that low, they aren't exactly stellar either. Those two combined will hurt a bit. 

 

I had mentioned I wasn't looking for top programs. It's interesting, I exclusively research neuropsychometric properties in how they can better account for brain-behavior relationships. With that being said, I know that these standardized tests really do not provide (by itself) the best predictor for someone's success in college. It's main purpose is to cluster large samples into anticipated quartiles to make an inference, etc. However, when considering other aspects such as the dedicated 15 years as a professional musician whom played for several major orchestras, studied at one of the leading conservatories of music and switched career paths to the social and behavioral sciences...the GRE cannot account for these specific variances as demonstrated in my background. The ACT/SAT along with the GRE are measures of how one is going perform in their first year of graduate school. There have been plenty of courses and subjects within a course (like cognitive psychology) that I cannot stand nor would want to come across again, but I did persevere and made A's. So, the idea that the GRE is gauging someone's ability to overcome adversity is also not well represented in that perspective. 

 

Not to get this thread into a "GRE is unfair" debate, I am simply saying, given the evidence I have provided with the intentions of applying to schools that are NOT "top" programs, would I have a decent chance for a program? Surely the statement of purpose and my references have to account for a good chunk of the application, which is where they will find plenty of examples of hardships endured and overcome, diversity, innovative thinking processes, etc. 

Edited May 17, 2014 by Cog-Neuro Guy

[spunky]

I had mentioned I wasn't looking for top programs. It's interesting, I exclusively research neuropsychometric properties in how they can better account for brain-behavior relationships. With that being said, I know that these standardized tests really do not provide (by itself) the best predictor for someone's success in college. It's main purpose is to cluster large samples into anticipated quartiles to make an inference, etc. However, when considering other aspects such as the dedicated 15 years as a professional musician whom played for several major orchestras, studied at one of the leading conservatories of music and switched career paths to the social and behavioral sciences...the GRE cannot account for these specific variances as demonstrated in my background. The ACT/SAT along with the GRE are measures of how one is going perform in their first year of graduate school. There have been plenty of courses and subjects within a course (like cognitive psychology) that I cannot stand nor would want to come across again, but I did persevere and made A's. So, the idea that the GRE is gauging someone's ability to overcome adversity is also not well represented in that perspective. 

 

Not to get this thread into a "GRE is unfair" debate, I am simply saying, given the evidence I have provided with the intentions of applying to schools that are NOT "top" programs, would I have a decent chance for a program? Surely the statement of purpose and my references have to account for a good chunk of the application, which is where they will find plenty of examples of hardships endured and overcome, diversity, innovative thinking processes, etc. 

 

 

Although I pretty much agree with everyone  mentioned that you should re-take the GRE (because you should) at the end of the day, why don't you just apply? The worst that can happen is that you application gets tossed on the 'No' pile and then you'll just learn that those darn GREs are a lot more important than we'd like them to be. We may not like them much, but they're a fact of life now (almost a 'rite of passage') and sometimes you just gotta suck it up and work on them if you really want something. My PhD is in Psychometrics/Quantitative Psychology (which means I will eventually be working at ETS, College Board, etc. where all these standardized tests are developed) and the more I dealt with people in admission departments from colleges and in the testing industry, the more I learnt why they are valued: there are too many applicants and not enough programs to take everyone in. There is no time to assess each applicant's merits on their own so admission committees need a quick check to filter many of them as they can so professors and potential future advisors can concentrate on evaluating the applications of students they consider to be the best candidates. Will brilliant people fall through the cracks? Oh, absolutely! The system is not perfect, but it is the one we have. It is up to you (or anyone else), as the applicant to either maximize your chances of admission or just bank on luck and hope that someone will notice something in your application that may show them you're a worthwhile candidate.

 

When I applied the first time I also got not-so-great scores on the GRE and was rejected. I studied really hard the 2nd time and got in. My application was pretty much the same as the one I submitted the first time, the only thing that changed were my GRE scores and, apparently, that was enough to get me in. 

Edited May 17, 2014 by spunky

[Darth.Vegan]

I had mentioned I wasn't looking for top programs. It's interesting, I exclusively research neuropsychometric properties in how they can better account for brain-behavior relationships. With that being said, I know that these standardized tests really do not provide (by itself) the best predictor for someone's success in college. It's main purpose is to cluster large samples into anticipated quartiles to make an inference, etc. However, when considering other aspects such as the dedicated 15 years as a professional musician whom played for several major orchestras, studied at one of the leading conservatories of music and switched career paths to the social and behavioral sciences...the GRE cannot account for these specific variances as demonstrated in my background. The ACT/SAT along with the GRE are measures of how one is going perform in their first year of graduate school. There have been plenty of courses and subjects within a course (like cognitive psychology) that I cannot stand nor would want to come across again, but I did persevere and made A's. So, the idea that the GRE is gauging someone's ability to overcome adversity is also not well represented in that perspective. 

 

Not to get this thread into a "GRE is unfair" debate, I am simply saying, given the evidence I have provided with the intentions of applying to schools that are NOT "top" programs, would I have a decent chance for a program? Surely the statement of purpose and my references have to account for a good chunk of the application, which is where they will find plenty of examples of hardships endured and overcome, diversity, innovative thinking processes, etc. 

Personally, I consider the GRE virtually worthless, and studies have proven that after a very minimal level of competence (50th percentile or so) has been reached, the predictive likelihood of the GRE on graduate success is limited at best. That said, this will hurt your application, and you should retake. 

[Whatishistoryanyway]

I think a good percentage of us believe the GRE is a scam, but that doesn't mean you can just ignore it. One thing to keep in mind is funding. Many departments can ignore your GREs together, good or bad. But that doesn't mean the university will award you a fellowship. Many schools are obsessed with the ranking thing. Their image takes a hit if they fund someone with a 280 combined GRE. Until someone does something about it, that's the way it will be.

[hj2012]

If you graduated from UNT, would it be possible for you to email the DGS and just ask if your GRE scores are sufficient for entry and, possibly more importantly, funding? Funding is what I would be most concerned about, as many graduate schools have what amounts to a zero tolerance policy about funding students under a certain score threshold - and many of these schools aren't necessarily the highly ranked ones. Trust me, I also find it ludicrous that standardized test scores matter so much, but it's a sad fact of grad admissions.

[Darth.Vegan]

If you ask they will generally just say "we take your entire application into account in our decision making process." 

[hj2012]

If you ask they will generally just say "we take your entire application into account in our decision making process." 

 

This is very possible, haha. But I still think it would be worthwhile for the OP to email either the DGS or one of their former professors at UNT and ask for advice, particularly since he/she is an alumni. But rather than asking about minimum scores, it might be more useful to say something like, "Hey, I'm a former student of yours looking to apply to PhD programs, would you mind giving me some insight on the role the GRE plays in admissions to your university?"  My undergrad professors gave me a lot of "insider tips" about how admissions works, which was really helpful to me as I crafted my application.

[Cog-Neuro Guy]

I think this is a good idea. I would email a lot of psychology Ph.D. programs essentially trying gauge them about the GRE and my background, and for the most part, most of them gave you a typical, bland response that is generic, only a small percent actually said "you seem like a great fit, I am looking for someone like you."