philosophy or political science

[readeatsleep]

hello all, id like to plumb your soft supple heads for advice.

i am a masters student in a philosophy program; i studied philosophy and political theory (and history) as an undergraduate and did very well. i will be doing the application dance this summer to look for a phd program.

i am interested in the history of social and political theory, recognition and personal identity, critical theory, the frankfurt school, hannah arendt, nietzsche, hegel, rousseau, etc.

should i be in a political science phd or philosophy? lately ive been leaning towards political science since ive been disenchanted by philosophy - too much speculation, too much useless phenomenology, to much professionalization. on the other hand, i think id like to eventually teach in a philosophy department, as i feel like that would give me free reign to pursue my interests. i imagine i could be the political philosopher of a department one day, and do hegel as well. however, i feel like one cant really specialize in philosophy if they want a job - id need to study a bunch of other topics that arent interesting to me (epistemology, metaphysics). additionally, where would i go to study social thought in a philosophy department?

but a political science phd would allow me to study social and poltical thought more closely as a graduate student, and learn more about the discipline as a whole. however, im not that excited about the mandatory classes in two other subfields outside of theory that seems to be standard at all good programs. on the other hand, the political theory job market, despite being so miserable, might actually be better than the philosophy job market.

so, what do you all think? i was planning on applying to the top 10 or 12 programs in each disicpline that i would be happy at, but thats like, $1,500 in application fees! so im haoping maybe i can cut that number in half by choosing a discipline.

thanks everyone.

[sonofcioran]

I think you need to narrow down your interests. Waaaay too broad. Get a job or get a Master's. Then take another crack at this when you know what interests you and the field a bit better.

I think you're also ignoring the prevalence of people you have no interest with (or haven't mentioned an interest at least) in American Political Philo e.g. Rawls, Nozick). You probably won't be reading Agamben (I imagine he's in the ballpark of the stuff that interests you?) in an American poli sci class. Someone like that is more commonly cited in lit crit (I see him cited a lot in the journals I read) and cultural anthro. Check the cites of his books and articles (or another current continental political type) on google scholar if you don't believe me.

Here's what really puzzles me - you assert that you''re mildly interested in continental philosophy, but not in Phenomenology, Metaphysics or Epistemology? Granted many of us have a subfield or two they hate in their field, but the three major fields in Philosophy is a bit much. What are you interested in philosophy exactly, besides politics (Aesthetics, Ethics)? You've ruled out half of the major fields. That's kind of like saying, "I like Math, except for arithmetic."

Best of luck, though. Hope things work out.

[moonriver0202]

It depends... you should weigh down what you're interest really is. Are you more geared in Philosophy or Political Science? I have friends who earned a bachelor in philosophy and took up masters and phd in political science. i think they're thinking more of the practicality of how they can use it in their lives as professionals. Good luck!

Edited January 2, 2010 by rising_star
to remove links

[readeatsleep]

I think you need to narrow down your interests. Waaaay too broad. Get a job or get a Master's. Then take another crack at this when you know what interests you and the field a bit better.

I think you're also ignoring the prevalence of people you have no interest with (or haven't mentioned an interest at least) in American Political Philo e.g. Rawls, Nozick). You probably won't be reading Agamben (I imagine he's in the ballpark of the stuff that interests you?) in an American poli sci class. Someone like that is more commonly cited in lit crit (I see him cited a lot in the journals I read) and cultural anthro. Check the cites of his books and articles (or another current continental political type) on google scholar if you don't believe me.

Here's what really puzzles me - you assert that you''re mildly interested in continental philosophy, but not in Phenomenology, Metaphysics or Epistemology? Granted many of us have a subfield or two they hate in their field, but the three major fields in Philosophy is a bit much. What are you interested in philosophy exactly, besides politics (Aesthetics, Ethics)? You've ruled out half of the major fields. That's kind of like saying, "I like Math, except for arithmetic."

Best of luck, though. Hope things work out.

this is confusing to me. i'm already earning a masters degree. yes, of course, i am interested in the tradition of american political theory as well. i think its clear that i want to study social and political theory. you are puzzled by the fact that i am not interested in many fields in philosophy - but this is precisely my problem - i am not sure i want to continue studying philosophy. and what does agamben have to do with what i am talking about? continental philosophy is not just trendy, contemporary thought. i am more interested in 19th century continental and political thought. maybe you don't really know what you are talking about...

anyways, for those interested in my decision process or these topics, i have decided to apply mostly to political science programs that specialize in theory. this include yale, u chicago, berkeley, duke, johns hopkins, princeton (though mostly american/analytic theory at princeton) and a few others. i will also be applying to a few multidisciplinary programs, such as the committee on social thought at uchicago, the interdisciplinary program in political philosophy at princeton, and the rhetoric program at berkeley.

[sonofcioran]

What interests you about Continental Philosophy and how does it relate to poli sci? I'm still missing it. I don't think you know either. You're planning on applying to the 10-12 "top" programs in each discipline. A) That's a lot (what are you thinking 50-60 apps total?). What are the "top" programs? Find a program reputable in your subfield, not with a USNWR ranking that appeals to your ego.

If you want to study Kant, Berkeley, et al, you're in an Early Modern Philo Dep't, not a poli sci one even if you're interested in their political philo. If you're interested in Arendt, et al you're in a Modern Continental Dep't. Nietzsche is tricky, because it depends on your reading - Deleuzian, etc is more of a modern dep't, others may be in dep't that lean towards Aesthetics or even Post-Heideggerian Ontology. Ditto on Hegel. You won't find a Roycian Hegelian, but you'll find Marxist Hegelians, Utilitarian Hegelians, and about a half dozen other flavors. Hegel was a system philosopher, so you'll wind up learning how politics relate to all those nasty subjects you don't like (seriously - have you read Outlines of the Philosophy of Right?). I don't know how someone who despises metaphysics and ontology can like Hegel, especially when so much depends so heavily on phenomenology (Hegelian, not Husserlian) and the obviously metaphysical Absolute, the Notion, and the Spirit. I suppose you could if you were a Marxist Hegelian, but you'd still need to at least understand the metaphysics.

Like I said, check citations of who wrote stuff that interests you in the journals - rankings are absolutely useless for the most part, esp. if faculty moved around. See who wrote what in journals, where they're out of, and how often they're cited. If you don't know what journals to look for, check Ulrichsweb or something similar.

p.s. I know plenty of philo grad students. I do have an idea of this stuff. No clue on the poli sci side of things, though.

[readeatsleep]

thanks son of cioran, you have proven that you know a few Hegelian buzzwords. everything you said is completely obvious. i would appreciate it if you withheld your advice forthwith.

[hobbeslocke]

From the looks of the poli sci and other programs you are applying to, sounds like you already know the field very well and have all the options covered. Check out WUSTL, new school, etc.