Exhausted Master's student: Is it the wrong time for me to apply Ph.D/Ed.D?

[victorinox329]

Hi all, 

 

I'm in a bit of a complicated situation and would like to share my story with all of you. I hope that by sharing this It will help me figure out what I should do in the coming months regarding application to Ph.D/Ed.D programs. I will begin by giving a bit of background about myself, then I will explain my current situation, lastly I will propose the questions that have been keeping me awake at night the last few weeks. 

 

 

I am a Hispanic male in my mid 20's currently attending a Masters program at a State University. I graduated from a State University with an undergraduate GPA of 3.5 and currently hold a graduate GPA of 3.95. My GRE scores fall around the range of Q142 V160 Writing: 5.5. I am the first person in my family to have attended college and would like to get some advice from others who have gone through the graduate school experience. 

 

 My area of study is among those listed as "social sciences" on this forum. I am a little over halfway done with my Master's program and have been encouraged by many of my professors to not only present my work at multiple conferences, but also to apply to some of the top Ph.D programs in my field. I know that If I wanted to go that rout I could, but I know that I do not want to be a full time scholar / researcher. In fact, I have really started to grow tired and uninterested in my current area of study. I usually avoid going to conferences and have no real interest to publish my research in abstract journals. No, my real passion falls within the realm of teaching.  

 

Indeed, my ultimate goal is to be a full time professor at a community college (i.e., a full time educator not a researcher). Despite this, I have been encouraged several times by various people to pursue a Ph.D in my discipline. I on the other hand believe than an Ed.D with an emphasis on Higher Education would be more in line with my goals. In fact, I have identified several Ed.D programs close to me that offer such a specialization. I have spoken to people who have completed the Ed.D programs that I am interested in and have been informed that the programs are:

 

1. Doable in 2-3 years

2. Designed for Working professionals

3. Emphasize practical application and learning skills over researcher training. 

 

These are essentially the three things that I would want out of a graduate program.

 

With this in mind, I am all but convinced that when choosing between a Ph.D and an Ed.D I should probably apply to the Ed.D. However, there is an additional issue that I am contending with. That issue is my own academic exhaustion. I am just plain tired of being in school. I have been in college for a total of 8 years non stop now and even though I am in the middle of my summer break, I still feel exhausted and don't even want to think about next semester. I don't know if it is wise to apply to an Ed.D program when my energy level for academic work is at an all time low. With that said, there is a very good reason to apply to the Ed.D program as well. That reason being the increased job opportunity and salary that comes with an Ed.D. If I were to start teaching as an adjunct upon finishing my M.A. I would essentially be making about $38,000 - $40,000/year starting. This salary is assuming I teach 6-7 classes per semester as an adjunct. If I were to do the same job as an adjunct with a Ed.D I would be looking at roughly $51,000 starting salary. Assuming that I manage to land full time employment, my salary would being in the range of $55,000-$60,000 while only teaching about 5 classes per semester. The best part is I would be in a community college, and I wouldn't have to research!

 

 

So my questions are: 

 

 

1. Should I consider the Ph.D rout even though I no longer have interest  in researching within my discipline? 

 

2. Should I suck it up and begin a Ed.D program as soon as I graduate from my current M.A. program?

 

3. Would you recommend I work for less money with my M.A. for a few years before making any decisions?

 

4. What is your opinion on going into a Ph.D/Ed.D program while suffering from high levels of academic exhaustion/ burnout? 

 

 

 

Thanks all! Hope to get some replies that will help me make up my mind. I need to know in the next 1-2 months whether or not I will be applying for the Ed.D or a Ph.D program. 

Edited June 9, 2014 by victorinox329

[hj2012]

 If you are no longer interested in research in your current discipline, you should definitely NOT pursue a PhD. "Sucking it up" might work for a semester, but it won't work for the 6-7 years you'll likely spend on the PhD.

 

To me, your third option -- working a few years -- seems to be most reasonable, especially if you're looking to get a professional degree down the road. I wouldn't sweat the salary difference, as there's no guarantee that you'd get a higher paying job even with the doctorate. (Plus this isn't taking into account the opportunity cost of the time spent on the degree.) Considering your level of burnout, pursuing an even more intense academic program does not seem wise. The academy will always be there for you to return to.

 

Good luck!

[victorydance]

I agree with the above. People with MAs get hired at CCs all the time. I would try to find a job, see if you like it, then weigh your options a few years down the line.

[victorinox329]

I agree with the above. People with MAs get hired at CCs all the time. I would try to find a job, see if you like it, then weigh your options a few years down the line.

 

I hope I get lucky. My plan was to apply to work at various CCs in a few months while at the same time applying for the Ed.D program. If I don't get into the Ed.D program — likely because I lack professional experience — then I could just work a few years and build experience. I'm hoping that being bilingual in Spanish and willing to relocate anywhere in the US helps with the full time CC job hunt. If I get accepted into the Ed.D program I was considering "sucking it up" for the 2-3 years it takes to finish it. It wouldn't be as bad as going into a Ph.D for my current discipline since Education would feel like a brand new area of study. I would likely enjoy it at least for the first few years. Additionally, People who did the M.A. program I am in and then proceeded to get their Ed.D degree from the schools I'm looking at said that their Ed.D program was significantly less challenging. This is not surprising given that professional degrees (i.e., built for working professionals) tend to have less assignments / reading. 

Edited June 9, 2014 by victorinox329

[bakalamba]

I agree, there's no reason to pursue a PhD, or even an EdD, if you're that burnt out in academics. Another benefit of waiting to do the EdD is that many CCs will reimburse part of the tuition for fulltime staff or faculty (the one I've been working at in between graduate programs pays for 1/2). I think the experience would also greatly improve your chance in being accepted to top EdD programs, and improve the quality of your studies because you would have several years of experience with CC students, administration, and the organization of CCs to enrich your learning.

 

My ultimate interest is research, but I took breaks in between my Bachelors, Masters, and PhD, and am really happy that I did.

[Eigen]

You don't mention what area you're in, other than social science, but I think you may be fundamentally confused about what an Ed.D will let you do. 

 

The only area an Ed.D will qualify you to teach in at the college level is educational administration/education programs. And even then, you won't be as competitive as you would with a PhD. 

 

While you can get jobs with an MA teaching at CCs, landing a full time or TT position without a PhD is quite difficult- in some fields it's almost impossible to get CC teaching positions even with the PhD. 

 

Generally, in higher ed, the EdD degree is for someone who *doesnt* want to teach, but wants to be a full time administrator- dean of students, student affairs, assessment, etc. 

 

The PhD is the terminal degree you want if you want to teach at a post-secondary level: CC, 4-year university, small liberal arts college, etc. 

 

While the PhD is a research based degree, you don't just pursue it if you want to do research- you also pursue it if you want to teach at the college level. 

 

Also, I would expect yourself to have to do research as a full time faculty member at a CC. The research is different, but every CC instructor I know has to show they are a productive scholar (i.e., research). 

 

Bottom line, for what you seem to be interested in, the Ed.D and PhD are not comparable degrees- one is a professional degree for administrators and K-12 teachers, the other is a degree for university educators. 

[themmases]

I agree with Eigen-- every CC instructor I know has a PhD or maybe an MS/MA. The Ed.Ds I've met have jobs like public school superintendent, or are going for higher ed. administration jobs.

 

I would strongly suggest that you search for a job and plan on taking at least a year off from school. A years-long PhD in a field you have no research interest in, when you are already experiencing burnout, is way too high a price to pay just to teach. An Ed.D will move out out of the classroom, not into it. Based on my reading about the job market, I also think your estimate of your income as an adjunct is unrealistically high, and that you may be underestimating the amount of work-- and travel between different institutions-- it would take to earn that much as an adjunct.

 

You may be surprised at the types of jobs you are good at and that are fulfilling to you outside of academia. In addition to well-known areas like CC teaching, adjuncting, and language teaching, many people are happy in jobs providing professional training. I would go so far as to say that if you become experienced in most professional jobs (unless you work somewhere too tiny to have anyone new), there are opportunities to train others and be a mentor if you signal that you're willing.

 

A woman at my hospital used to be an average support staff person, until she became frustrated with the lack of professional development opportunities here for people who aren't MDs or nurses. She got permission to fix that, and was so good at it that today teaching those courses and finding new ones to offer is her full-time job. If you like helping out people beginning their careers there are lots of jobs, such as research coordinators in universities, that spend a lot of time supervising and mentoring undergraduates. Volunteer coordinators can also do a lot of this. I also have friends who work in unrelated areas and work on the side or volunteer their time teaching adults language, life, or job skills.

[victorinox329]

I agree with Eigen-- every CC instructor I know has a PhD or maybe an MS/MA. The Ed.Ds I've met have jobs like public school superintendent, or are going for higher ed. administration jobs.

 

I would strongly suggest that you search for a job and plan on taking at least a year off from school. A years-long PhD in a field you have no research interest in, when you are already experiencing burnout, is way too high a price to pay just to teach. An Ed.D will move out out of the classroom, not into it. Based on my reading about the job market, I also think your estimate of your income as an adjunct is unrealistically high, and that you may be underestimating the amount of work-- and travel between different institutions-- it would take to earn that much as an adjunct.

 

You may be surprised at the types of jobs you are good at and that are fulfilling to you outside of academia. In addition to well-known areas like CC teaching, adjuncting, and language teaching, many people are happy in jobs providing professional training. I would go so far as to say that if you become experienced in most professional jobs (unless you work somewhere too tiny to have anyone new), there are opportunities to train others and be a mentor if you signal that you're willing.

 

A woman at my hospital used to be an average support staff person, until she became frustrated with the lack of professional development opportunities here for people who aren't MDs or nurses. She got permission to fix that, and was so good at it that today teaching those courses and finding new ones to offer is her full-time job. If you like helping out people beginning their careers there are lots of jobs, such as research coordinators in universities, that spend a lot of time supervising and mentoring undergraduates. Volunteer coordinators can also do a lot of this. I also have friends who work in unrelated areas and work on the side or volunteer their time teaching adults language, life, or job skills.

Thank you for that advice. With regard to the estimated salary, I am actually not overestimating that salary at all. I know several people who graduated from my current M.A. program who started off making anywhere from $35,000-$43,000 teaching as adjuncts.In fact, around here the average person who graduates with an M.A. and goes into adjunct teaching makes at least around $35,000 a year.  The issue is that the cost of living where I am (Southern CA) is extremely high and that money really doesn't go very far at all. Anyway, I wanted to also ask if getting a second Masters degree would be preferable to a Ph.D or Ed.D? I know that I would have a full tank of gas going into an M.A. program in something that I am thoroughly interested in learning more about. As was previously stated here, getting an Ed.D doesn't really put me into the college classroom but out of it. Additionally, if I were to get a Ph.D I would have to endure 3-5 years of research — which I don't want to do — in a discipline which I am no longer all that interested in studying.  I was thinking getting a masters in an area that I am more passionate about such as sociology or political science so that I could be more marketable (i.e., cast a wider net in the CC application pools).

Oh and my current discipline is Communication, sorry I never mentioned it before.

 

 I have been doing a lot of reading on the Chronicle of Higher ed and several different online sites regarding the job market for TT M.A/M.S at CC's. The outlook is terrible right now, but employment opportunities are improving slowly as the economy bounces back. Furthermore, it is not impossible to land a full time TT position at a smaller college in more rural areas of the country. Essentially, areas that are undesirable for most people to live in (i.e., South Dakota, North Dakota, Wyoming, Oklahoma, etc.). I would be willing to move anywhere in the country that I could find a full time TT job. 

Edited July 10, 2014 by victorinox329

[Eigen]

Getting a non terminal degree with the outlook to teach is not a good idea. 

 

The market is flooded with communication, sociology and political science PhD's who want to teach that you are competing against, and even if the market recovers (which it's not, really) you'll be competing against those. 

 

Getting a second MA instead of either getting a PhD or getting out of the game sounds like a bad idea, to me. 

 

It's not impossible to find a job. Lots of things aren't impossible. 

 

It's more like hoping to win the lottery, though, and that's even with a PhD.

[victorinox329]

Getting a non terminal degree with the outlook to teach is not a good idea. 

 

The market is flooded with communication, sociology and political science PhD's who want to teach that you are competing against, and even if the market recovers (which it's not, really) you'll be competing against those. 

 

Getting a second MA instead of either getting a PhD or getting out of the game sounds like a bad idea, to me. 

 

It's not impossible to find a job. Lots of things aren't impossible. 

 

It's more like hoping to win the lottery, though, and that's even with a PhD.

Yeah ... outlooks are bad. I have been doing a lot of research the last few months and things are really not looking good for me in the future. I really want to do something that I love in life, I want to be able to look back at my life and be happy with what I did. I would ultimately love to know that I made positive changes in students lives. Coming from a very low income family and being a first generation college student, I just wanted an opportunity to give back. It really is looking like I may have to bite the bullet and follow in the footsteps of my cousin. He got his B.S in Marketing with a minor in Communication was able to get a full time job working for Altira group (i.e., Philip Morris) 4 years back. He works in their marketing department and his job is in his own words "To get people to voluntarily poison themselves." He hates what he does and his life is full of regret ..... but his job is secure, full benefits, and salaries are extremely lucrative. I know that I could get a job where he is working, but I really want to try to do good with my life. 

 

I guess ill have to figure out what is more important to me, having a stable income and a decent standard of living, or my morals. 

[hj2012]

Yeah ... outlooks are bad. I have been doing a lot of research the last few months and things are really not looking good for me in the future. I really want to do something that I love in life, I want to be able to look back at my life and be happy with what I did. I would ultimately love to know that I made positive changes in students lives. Coming from a very low income family and being a first generation college student, I just wanted an opportunity to give back. It really is looking like I may have to bite the bullet and follow in the footsteps of my cousin. He got his B.S in Marketing with a minor in Communication was able to get a full time job working for Altira group (i.e., Philip Morris) 4 years back. He works in their marketing department and his job is in his own words "To get people to voluntarily poison themselves." He hates what he does and his life is full of regret ..... but his job is secure, full benefits, and salaries are extremely lucrative. I know that I could get a job where he is working, but I really want to try to do good with my life. 

 

I guess ill have to figure out what is more important to me, having a stable income and a decent standard of living, or my morals. 

 

You know, the choice isn't necessarily between teaching low-income students at a cc and working at Philip Morris. There are jobs that can offer both a stable income and a decent standard of living without forcing you to make huge moral compromises. You could look into education policy, education technology, communication jobs in a non-profit setting, corporate social responsibility, etc etc. You could get your Ed.D. and be a good administrator -- we have a serious lack of those -- while still making a decent paycheck. 

 

Anyway, just wanted to inject a note of optimism. There are still lots of opportunities for you, and we need people with your diverse experiences in all career fields!