Higher Ed & Student Affairs - How Important is Experience?

[My Other Self]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm still about 3 years off until grad school so I'm (obviously) thinking ahead. At this time, I was hoping I could receive some advice.

My college path has been anything but "normal". I'm 27 and will be transferring to the CSU Chico online degree completion in Sociology next Spring. I work full-time and have to support myself 100%. My job is a standard M-F office job which I detest. I've been going to school at night and online  for the past 6 years at a local community college, mainly  getting my Gen Ed out of the way.

I love school - it's sort of my "zen" place. I've realized recently that this is what I want to do with my life, so after I complete my B.A. the next step is grad school.

 

At this point I'm not sure if I want to go into administration or student affairs, but I figure i have plenty of time for that now.

Given my full-time work schedule (and starting next Spring, full-time school as well), getting any sort of experience as an undergrad is next to impossible. One reason of course being that the program is entirely online (which I have to do).

 

How important is this in the long run? Is it something I need to worry about, or just focus on keeping my GPA respectable (currently a 3.3)?

I appreciate the feedback. 

Thanks!

Edited June 16, 2014 by My Other Self

[My Other Self]

Well, unfortunately any sort of internship or assistantship wouldn't be possible because I don't live near the campus. The online degree completion program is only available to those that don't live in the Chico area, which is why I'm able to finish my degree there.

 

I would've assumed there'd be some career changers out there who would be looking in to higher ed.

 

I'd appreciate any other feedback.

Edited June 16, 2014 by My Other Self

[confusedkate]

I disagree with Mac. As someone going into a higher ed program straight out of undergrad with no experience I got into 5/6 top schools. What Mac said about the schools without GRE requiring experience might be the case, but then apply to schools which do require it (that's what I did!). In that case focus on your GPA, study as much as possible for the GRE, have a very passionate personal statement about why this matters to you and why you want to get into this field, and get good recs. All of those things are equally as important as experience to this type of program--especially your GRE.

[ZeChocMoose]

I disagree with Mac. As someone going into a higher ed program straight out of undergrad with no experience I got into 5/6 top schools. What Mac said about the schools without GRE requiring experience might be the case, but then apply to schools which do require it (that's what I did!). In that case focus on your GPA, study as much as possible for the GRE, have a very passionate personal statement about why this matters to you and why you want to get into this field, and get good recs. All of those things are equally as important as experience to this type of program--especially your GRE.

 

Yes, but the OP is not someone straight from undergrad so while it is understandable that someone straight from undergrad is going to have limited experience, it is going to more difficult to reconcile why someone who is in their late 20s wants to change fields.  Granted late 20's is still young so it is definitely doable - but you are going to need to come up with a believable story of why you want to work in student affairs/higher ed.  Unfortunately, what you wrote so far of really enjoying school is not going to put an admission committees fear to rest that you don't know what it is like to work in the field.  In some areas - it is low pay for long hours and a good proportion of young professionals in student affairs end up leaving the field in their first couple of years.  

 

It is not even clear to me what you want to do in the field.  This is where experience comes into play.  If you can say I volunteered at this education organization or I am a mentor for first generation college students or I interned in the x,y,z office in this university it will help the adcom see that you understand what this work is about and are serious about this career change.  The problem is there is this idea that working in a university is a plum job - great pay for little work - so it is not uncommon to see career changers decide that they now want to work in a university because they are burnt out working in business, consulting, etc.  The problem is you need to convince people that you don't have a rosier view of the field than what it is and one way to do that is to couple your experience in the field with a compelling story. 

Edited June 17, 2014 by ZeChocMoose

[My Other Self]

Isn't it kind of a Catch-22 in this situation, though? I can't get in to a grad school without experience and I can't get experience since I won't be physically attending CSU for my third and fourth year of undergrad.

 

I want to get in to academic advising. I've been lost for awhile with what it is I've wanted to do with my life, but after having some very meaningful discussions with my adviser at community college I realized its for me. I'm not interested in a plum job - I just want to help others and have a fulfilling career.

 

I wound up in my generic office job by accident. It's what I do to pay the bills. I wasn't able to go to school when I was "supposed to" (i.e. 18 and fresh out of high school). I've had to find ways to support myself while putting my education in the passenger seat by slowly chipping away at my GE. My path has been anything but easy, but I'm determined.

 

A little disappointed to read this. I'm not sure how I can get a position at the community college I currently attend given I only have one semester left and only one day I week I could realistically volunteer.

Edited June 18, 2014 by My Other Self

[ZeChocMoose]

It might be better for you to finish your bachelor's and then try to find a job in student affairs/higher ed for a couple years.  Then after about 2-3 years of working in the field, apply for a master's degree in higher ed/student affairs.  The other problem is since the field values experience a lot, I am not sure how much you are going to get out of grad school without having some experience to draw from to be able to talk about in the classroom.

 

Ultimately, you want to be competitive for a program that is going to fully fund you (pay tuition, offer a stipend, and give you healthcare).  As these programs tend to be competitive, it is going to be hard to secure an assistantship without any experience especially since you will be competing against other people who have experience.  You might be able to get into a program where you will need to self pay.  The problem is that these programs are expensive and they cost more than what your entry level salary is going to be.  Also, sometimes the professional experiences that they offer are not adequate to secure a job in the field after you graduate which is definitely concerning.

 

I think your best bet is to take a couple years off between undergrad and grad school to work on getting the experience so you'll be more competitive to apply to programs that are going to fund you.

[My Other Self]

Thank you all for your insight.

 

I e-mailed my counselor/adviser at the CC I've been attending for years (we have a pretty good relationship) to see if she had any advice. She and I briefly talked about this at our last meeting in April. I have Mondays off from work, so that gives me one week day that I'd be able to work/volunteer at the college (if I can find a position!).  I can also do evenings, although I'm not sure what kind of jobs would be available at that time.

 

At this point then I'm hoping I can find experience in the field before I get my B.A. I don't want to be 32 or 33 until I start grad school.

Just not sure where I'd begin looking for a job there. Don't they usually reserve those for students that need financial aid? Also, when it comes to experience, does it matter if its CC vs. Uni? Would that play a role down the road when it comes to applying for a program with a GA?

Edited June 18, 2014 by My Other Self

[My Other Self]

Thank you for your advice, Mac.

 

I heard back from my counselor/adviser, and she personally doesn't think it's imperative that I get experience right now. She did however suggest that I job shadow and do some informational interviewing this upcoming semester. She indicated that she received the experience she needed through grad school (which required 700 hours of interning), and had an internship through our CC (I realize an internship is different than a GA). 

 

I'm shooting for the GA route since I couldn't justify the cost of grad school alone, so I'll still see what I can do in terms of either doing a (very) part-time gig on Mondays or volunteer to work somewhere within the school this upcoming semester. Am I really just looking to have something to put on the grad school application? I've never interned or volunteered anywhere before so I'm not really 100% sure on what I would need to do here.

 

Question: My CC (and I'm sure most or all CCs do) has a program where you can assist the disabled by sitting in classes, transcribing notes, recording lectures, etc. Would something like this be beneficial? It actually sounds pretty interesting on its own but I don't know if this falls under student affairs.

Edited June 19, 2014 by My Other Self

[CurlyHairStudentAffairs]

Experience isn't incredibly imperative for your application, but it's important for obtaining a GA. The program you described may be beneficial depending on how it's structured. If you're just taking notes and sitting in on the class but not actually interacting with the students then I would say no. But if you're working with the students, meeting with them to go over notes, or anything like that then yes. That sort of experience could be very valuable if you landed a GA in disablity services or academic support. 

[My Other Self]

Well, like I said I want to get in to academic advising. Since you wouldn't be advising students if you just worked in the advising office, I'm not sure what kind of experience would be best. 

 

I guess the better question is if you're going in to academic advising, what kind of experience did you try and muster in your undergrad?

[JBums1028]

I agree with what a lot of the others have said. I think you would really benefit from taking a few years to gain work experience at a college or university before jumping into a graduate program (there are still positions out there that only require a bachelors degree), as others have mentioned. I also think that your plans to get volunteer experience will definitely help. I also agree with curly hair that you should aim for experinences where you will be working directly with students at this point. Have you asked about being able to help with orientation at your CC? Since it's summer time those should be coming up pretty soon...

 

One thing that I will add here is that I think will be a major factor for you is going to be how you sell yourself in interviews and your personal statements. As a nontraditional student, you can actually offer a diverse perspective on what it means to be a college student that many of your future cohort mates won't have (the overwhelming majority of people in these programs had traditional undergraduate experiences). So I think if you explain the challenges you faced in completing your education and how that's inspired you to help others in your situation achieve their goals, that could help make you a more compelling candidate. It will also explain to the admissions committee why you are lacking in the traditional student affairs experience that they typically see from other applicants.

[My Other Self]

I want to thank everyone for their guidance so far. It's been helpful in trying to figure out what chapter I need to write next in the game of life.

 

I'm going to my CC tomorrow and will go around seeing what my options are for PT work during the upcoming semester. I will see if they need any orientation volunteers (most of it is done online though, from what I recall), and will put myself out there in a way so I can assist students.

 
The fact that I'm a non-traditional student speaks for itself, but I personally believe the perseverance I've had in trying to accomplish something as important as my B.A. is something else. I've gone through periods of homelessness and unemployment during this ride but I never gave up, and although it's taken 6 years I'm finally ready to transfer to a CSU. 

 

I'm still not sure exactly what kind of job you can get with just a B.A. at a college. Any suggestions on what to look for if I'm to take time off after getting my B.A. and then going for the M.S.?

[JBums1028]

In terms of post graduate jobs, admissions is generally the easiest to enter with just a Bachelor's. I've heard it can also be a good transition into academic advising as well. I was also advised to look at community colleges because they generally tend to be more likely to hire someone with just a Bachelor's degree. It will take a little more digging, but they're out there!

[My Other Self]

I'm going to campus tomorrow with my resume/cover letter/references in hand to give to departments for potential openings. Are there any departments I should focus on and any I should stray away from? 

 

I was thinking:
Admissions

Counseling / Transfer Center

Financial Aid

 

Any other suggestions?

 

It looks like the disabled program I mentioned earlier is interactive with the actual students and they do have advertised openings at this time. 

Edited June 23, 2014 by My Other Self

[My Other Self]

I hit the campus hard this afternoon. Unfortunately, I don't think it was really a success. Most of the departments weren't looking for any help (even any volunteers) and some were relegated to only accepting CalWORKs students (kind of like a job placement for unemployed students).

I spoke with someone at a department that deals with student diversity and they are looking for people for the first week of classes in the Fall only to assist new students with navigating the campus. I told them I'd be interested in that, but again, it's only one day and that's that (but it's something).

 

Another area I went to is what they call the Learning Resource Center, which is a hub for students to receive assistance with either tutoring or by checking students in/out and answering questions for their computer lab. I'm not sure how beneficial this may be.

 

Either way, I'm making an effort. Just seems like it may be a little more difficult than I anticipated.

Edited June 24, 2014 by My Other Self

[wm.geiger]

Have you thought about volunteering at a college access organization in the evenings or on the weekend?  I imagine non-profit volunteering would be helpful if you are unable to get direct experience within the college.

[My Other Self]

Yes. There's one here in town, but they're not accepting any volunteers at this time.

 

Edited to add that I spoke with someone who suggested I apply for Federal Work Study to get my foot in the door. I amended my FAFSA just now to reflect my interest. I'll inquire again with the school in a couple of weeks after they re-process my file to see if there's anything for me.

Edited June 24, 2014 by My Other Self

[ZeChocMoose]

That sounds like a good plan i.e. trying to get work study status.

 

I also wouldn't be too concerned if I was you if you need to take a couple gap years between your undergrad and master's.  It is fairly typically for the field as a whole to see "older" graduate students given that the field values experience.  In my master's program, about 1/2 of the people were in their mid 20's and the other 1/2 were early to mid 30's.  I had two years of experience between my undergrad and master's degree and I would say experience wise that was on the low end compared to the rest of my cohort mates.  I would also say that I was a more attractive candidate with my two years of experience + my master's degree than I would have been with just the master's degree when I was searching for jobs. So yes while it is important to get into a program - you also want to think long term and set yourself up nicely for multiple job offers when you graduate.

 

The other option is work full-time in higher ed and attend a program part-time which is not atypical for the field.

[My Other Self]

I think part of my concern with the gap between B.A. and Masters is the ability to find an actual job in higher ed once I obtain my Bachelor's. It's difficult on its own to just find a job, and I can't envision it being any easier when I'm 30 and trying to transition with no relevant work experience at my disposal.

[ZeChocMoose]

I think part of my concern with the gap between B.A. and Masters is the ability to find an actual job in higher ed once I obtain my Bachelor's. It's difficult on its own to just find a job, and I can't envision it being any easier when I'm 30 and trying to transition with no relevant work experience at my disposal.

 

I believe someone mentioned this up thread, but usually working in undergraduate admissions or financial aid post bachelor's degree are really good areas to look into as they hire a decent amount of people to work as counselors and there seems to be a fair amount of turn over each year.  You would also be able to build some transferable skills that you can use as an academic advisor as usually you get to meet with students and their families.  All of the academic advisors that I know (which is about a handful) worked somewhere else in higher ed (student affairs, admissions, financial aid, res life) and then transferring over to academic advising after working for a couple years in the other area.

 

 

PS:

 

Ze Choc... any luck with your job search and what was your focus? (i,e student affairs, higher ed admin)

 

I am assuming that you are asking about my job search right after my master's degree?  

 

It was fairly painless - I secured a job in the semester that I was graduating along with the rest of my cohort who were also looking.  (There were a couple people who were part-time so they were staying with their jobs for now.)  I secured a job in institutional research which is a mix of higher ed admin and educ research so not as traditional as some of the entry-level jobs that you see graduating higher ed master's students getting.  Although that being said - I think it is becoming more popular as I notice there are now classes being taught on the topic in higher ed depts and some schools have certificates in IR.  

 

The majority of my cohort ended up either in admissions or academic advising/affairs.  I also graduated in the early stages of the great recession which I was really lucky as a couple months later a lot of the universities had hiring freezes and were asking staff members to take pay cuts.  Also there just seemed to be a lot of entry level IR positions open so I was able to be more choosy about the positions that I applied to.  The most challenging aspects I found was trying to finish up my program (it required a comprehensive exam and final seminar paper that was around 30-40 pages while I was also taking another class), working my 20 hr assistantship, and flying around the country for the multi day job interviews that is typical in the field.  It was a very busy semester!

[My Other Self]

Thank you for all of your advice, Ze. I really appreciate it. You've been very insightful.

 

I spoke with the Dean of the Social Sciences department today at my CC. I'm going to interview next Thursday for a part-time position within their department for the Fall semester. I'm sure there are a ton of other students lined up, but I'm hoping I can make a big enough of an impression that I have a fair shot of getting the gig.

 

He explained that the inner-workings (behind the scenes) of the jobs there are more of who you know and not really advertise, so this would be an amazing opportunity to get my foot in the door.

 

Crossing my fingers it works out!

[My Other Self]

I wanted to give a quick update.

 

I met with the Dean of the Social Sciences department and it went well. He said he's going to put my resume out there with some of his colleagues, specifically in the counseling department and student affairs to see if there's any openings that would accomodate my work schedule.

 

Hopefully things work out.

[My Other Self]

Well, I got an e-mail from school. I didn't get the position. Oh well. Back to the drawing board.

[oster14]

I realize that I am coming a little late to this party but I wanted to weigh in.  My Other Self, I honestly think that you would be competitive at several universities with your current life journey and experiences. I believe that your online education and successfully completing a B.A. online will be an asset.  As more colleges and universities are looking to break into the online sector of higher education, your experience as a student could be invaluable.  As more students become online only, there is going to be an increased need for staff who can anticipate their needs and accurately advise them and help them through courses.  For example, I have a colleague who is an academic advisor for several online programs at George Washington University.  She communicates via email/skype/etc almost exclusively with her students.  While this isn't to say that you want to go into online academic advising, I think you have a real opportunity to sell your educational experiences as professional experiences that would make you an ideal candidate as higher education continues to change. While I don't want to discount what others have said about professional experiences, I just want to reiterate that you should view your educational experience as extremely valuable in the current state of higher education.