Best path towards Epidemiology

[appme11]

I'm a third year undergrad at Northwestern in math and statistics.  I've tried asking advisors but haven't gotten any solid answers on requirements for the field, what to do to prepare, etc.  I realize I'm looking at having to get a PhD, though I'm curious what schools and especially what programs I should be looking at (Math, Statistics, Applied Math, other).  For now, I know I need to start looking at the GRE and other logistics, but also I need to make a decision on timeline.  My best efforts have given me a 3.5 rounded up, and I'm just now doing my first research position, so I'm not really in great shape for applications, and I don't see it improving in the next year.  I'm also don't think I'm emotionally ready for a PhD given some of the issues I've had in undergrad, so I'm considering taking a gap break between or working on a 5 year combined masters in applied math to transition from.  Is my best option just applying now and going straight out of undergrad, or would a gap be beneficial to increase success on applications?  I'm not shooting for Ivy League, but at least upper tier state schools.  If I did gap, would it be beneficial to get the masters degree or to do some sort of global health volunteer work/any quantitative job in a different industry?  Thanks for taking the time to answer this.

[Vene]

If your end goal is a PhD unless you have to make up for some major deficiencies in undergrad don't do a masters. As for if you want to spend a gap year working or go right out of undergrad is up to you and if you feel like you need a break.

 

Also, a 3.5 GPA is just fine and won't hurt you in the least. Are you heading into your third year or did you just finish your third year? If you're heading into it you're not behind. If you're heading into your last year and you're just starting research you're in a little worse shape. To some extent, I could see it looking worse to have not started earlier because a university like Northwestern will have all kinds of research opportunities a math major wouldn't get at a small liberal arts college.

 

Also, it would not be a bad idea, if you haven't already, to grad some basic biology and chemistry courses as epidemiology is a life science and even though math is highly valued in it, knowing the background basics of the biology aspects will be useful.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Vene

[appme11]

Thanks for the reply.  I have been hearing really bad things about masters recently so skipping it seems like a good idea.  How far should I go with the bio/chem classes?  I took the first year of chem, should I do organic chem as well?  I need to take the bio classes at some point, but I think I can fit it.

[Vene]

Organic chemistry is useful, but I wouldn't call it an essential class unless you decide to do biochemistry as well. I think it's more valuable to grab a course in microbiology or physiology. Because you're at a major university I'd check to see if there are any public health undergraduate degrees and there could be a couple courses they offer which can be valuable. I don't think the goal is to become an expert, but instead to show that even though you are a math major you have enough biology coursework that you won't be behind in an epidemiology program.

[themmases]

Have you looked at the application pages of the schools you're interested in? Some of them are quite specific about coursework they want incoming students to have completed. The most common desired courses I saw were biology and calculus, with a smaller group of schools specifically requesting preparation in chemistry, statistics, or programming experience. Some schools didn't mention any specific coursework, or made vague statements that they wanted "strong preparation" in math and science. If you're not sure which schools you'd fit in now, you should contact some of them and ask.

 

Most of the PhD programs I saw in epi (and I was generally applying to top public places, like you) required or strongly preferred a masters degree or another doctoral or professional degree (e.g. MD, JD). Unlike in other fields, it's not true-- at least of the schools I applied to-- that students are encouraged to just skip the masters. I suspect this is because the public health field is so dominated by the MPH that doctoral programs generally have their pick of applicants who have this credential.

 

In any case, the amount of math and science preparation you should do depends on the idiosyncracies of your chosen school and your plans for working in public health. If you're interested in emerging/infectious diseases or environmental health, of course prepare more-- you'll probably be required to. If you're more interested in behavioral health, policy, or health disparities, you will probably need less science. A 3.5 is not a bad GPA to get into an epidemiology program. Public health is growing, more schools are growing their programs or starting new ones, and it's just not saturated enough to be really competitive. Work experience will help you a lot, though, both in getting in and in getting a job when you're done. Get as close to public health work as you can in your job or volunteering, and always be thinking about how your experience could affect or be affected by public health problems to bridge the gap.

 

There is a public health board here, and there's also one on Student Doctor with a very active thread on the credentials of people who got in each cycle. They also post really good information on which degree and concentration to go for.

[appme11]

Should I be focusing on PhD programs specifically in epidemiology?  I was considering applied math for the doctorate instead because I'm much more interested in the quantitative side of it and a lot of applied math research is in epidemiology and similar applications.  Also, applied math is the only relevant non-application masters degree that I could get at Northwestern, and it would be easier to stay an extra two quarters for that than stay an extra year or two for an MPH (money is also an issue, so going to a different school for a full year or more to get a masters would be problematic as opposed to just paying for two more quarters of tuition).  If it's better to specifically get the the PhD in epidemiology, would the applied math masters be worth anything compared to the MPH?

[cyberwulf]

A few thoughts:

 

1. Most epidemiologists spend their time designing, carrying out, and analyzing data from obervational studies and randomized trials. A much smaller group does "epi methods" -- essentially developing new strategies for designing and analyzing studies -- but a good fraction of these folks weren't trained as epidemiologists but rather as (bio)statisticians/mathematicians.

 

2. Unlike math/stat/biostat, epidemiology PhD programs typically want students entering the program to have completed a Masters degree (typically an MPH) first. The reason is that Epi PhD students are expected to have a "shovel-ready" idea for a dissertation when they step on campus, and undergraduate students typically haven't had enough "real-world" experience to develop a specific research question that they want to investigate. 

 

3. In comparison to PhD programs in math/stat/biostat, Epi PhD students typically have much more limited quantitative background. I doubt that there are more than a handful a Epi PhD programs where the average quantitative GRE score is above the 80th percentile. 

 

4. Unless you know the precise sub-field of epidemiology you plan on pursuing (e.g., infectious disease epidemiology, where a couple of molecular biology courses might be helpful), it's hard to justify taking a lot of bio/chem classes. I get the impression that most epidemiologists become interested in a particular area during their Masters/work experience and then pick up the biomedical background they need along the way.

 

5. It would appear that Northwestern has a one-year Masters program in Epidemiology and Biostatistics (http://www.publichealth.northwestern.edu/prospective-students/mseb.html). Wouldn't that be more relevant than Applied Math?

[themmases]

I'm kind of relieved that cyberwulf's experience seems to agree with what I've read, since I'm starting in the fall! I'll just add that Northwestern's MPH program is CEPH accredited, but their larger public health program (and hence other public health degrees) appears not to be yet: http://ceph.org/accredited/

 

This will come off as super biased because I'm attending UIC in the fall, but if you want to remain in Chicago you should try to go there. That is easily the largest and most affordable public health program in the state, the whole school is accredited, and it's the highest ranked if you care about that sort of thing. Funding for masters degrees is rare-- and for MPH degrees it's almost nonexistent-- and I just got a sense that UIC would be more helpful with at least finding a job to offset things. I'd stay at Northwestern if you can get an employer to pay for it, or if you know there will be opportunities for you to work for or do research with the medical school.

 

Other excellent public schools of public health happen to be in the midwest also if you have family here or don't want to go too far-- Michigan and Minnesota come to mind.

[appme11]

These answers were pretty helpful, thanks guys.  Cyberwulf, thanks for clarifying the separate group for "epi methods."  I've looked into the MPH in biostat/epi, but the program advisor told me it's not great if I want to do quant modeling in epi.  I guess I'll see where I stand after taking the GRE and decide on either MPH or a PhD in math/biostat, as I've heard biostats is a bit more competitive.  Also, nice to hear a 3.5 is fine after consistently being told it isn't good enough the last year.

[cyberwulf]

Also, nice to hear a 3.5 is fine after consistently being told it isn't good enough the last year.

 

It depends on what your goals are. You should have no problem getting into a quality Masters program in biostat (Michigan, Minnesota, UNC, etc.) with a ~3.5 from Northwestern. Cracking a top 10 PhD program will be tough, but you might find some success at some of the larger programs outside that range, e.g., Texas, Iowa, Pittsburgh, etc. 

[appme11]

Yeah I was thinking if I go for the PhD to target mostly the better large public schools.  Northwestern doesn't like taking undergrads back into grad and I'm not really interested in any of the the Ivy League schools.  I might try U Chicago as a far reach since I like the school but other than that madison, minnesota, and some of the UCs are about as high as I'm aiming.  I *might* be able to get up to a 3.6 before applying, and my stats GPA is 3.8 but other than that I'm putting a lot of hope into test scores since I blew a lot of my intro math and science classes.