The 2009-2010 Season

[aaron.dewald]

All,

Brand spankin' new member to the grad cafe forums. Nice to meet everyone and read feedback.

As I understand, the busy season is over. Congrats to everyone that made it into what they were looking for.

I have a general question. I'm starting my second year (of two) towards an M.Ed. in Instructional Design/Educational Technology at the University of Utah. Sometime during last semester, I decided I'd like to continue on and pursue a Ph.D. in a related field.

When I applied for admission into the M.Ed. program, I did it in haste and somehow made it into the program last second. Actually, after the last second, but I was lucky

If I could, I'd like to ask a few questions to the collective group:

1) When did you 'know' you wanted to get a Ph.D. Not a "since I was a kid" answer, but when did you decide it was worth the time, effort, stress, and ... time?

2) When did you start the application process. Part of me feels like I'm waaay to early... the other part feels like I should have started looking last year (for the 09-10 program)

3) Do you shoot big and cross your fingers, or do you shoot realistic?

4) Should I be published in any way, or should I concentrate on grades, LoR's, and statements?

I was hoping someone could give me a sketch of a map of what to think, what to expect. I would like to think I have a decent academic/professional background... but I really. have. no. idea. where. to. start. To paraphrase someone else on the forum, "I'm reading the posts here and I am already nervous - and I haven't even applied!"

Thanks in advance for your feedback and thoughts.

[Stories]

1.) I knew after the 1st year of my MPH I wanted to do the PhD.

2.) I started writing my application materials in August of last year. I submitted my completed application in November. I began researching schools I was interested in January of the that same year.

3.) I shot everywhere. Yes, everywhere 17 applications! Oddly enough, many of which never sent me a decision.

4.) Publishing helps. But it's not imperative. You should definitely have solid grades, LoRs, and SoP. Good GRE scores help, too. You need to have something of everything for schools to consider you. And most of all, your research interests have to line up with faculty at the school you're applying to.

My academic background before applying to schools.

BA in Biology in '06 (Boston University), GPA: 2.9

-2 years of laboratory research

-1 year of senior independent research

GRE: 520V, 730Q, 5AW

MPH in Epidemiology + Environmental Health in '08 (Boston University), GPA: 3.5

-2 years as a full-time research assistant in the field I'll be doing my PhD

My future: PhD in Environmental Health Sciences projected in '13 (Yale University)

-Full funding from National Cancer Institute, 4 years.

[belowthree]

1) When did you 'know' you wanted to get a Ph.D. Not a "since I was a kid" answer, but when did you decide it was worth the time, effort, stress, and ... time?

After I started taking graduate courses my second year of undergrad. I really enjoyed it and started doing research the next year. Then I knew I was going to take a whack at it.

When I told friends I was planning on going to grad school, they were a little skeptical. I'm well known for slacking off in some of my courses. I just figured I'd find something, sure enough, I did.

2) When did you start the application process. Part of me feels like I'm waaay to early... the other part feels like I should have started looking last year (for the 09-10 program)

• 
  [*:1wep8x2a]In September I had no idea which schools I was applying too
  [*:1wep8x2a]In October I started meeting with my advisor to narrow down a list of schools
  [*:1wep8x2a]Sometime during November I stopped by different professors offices and got my 3 letter writers together, told them to expect a list and a packet later on
  [*:1wep8x2a]In early November I started drafting my SoP and getting some feedback on it
  [*:1wep8x2a]In mid November I opened my first applications to see what types of questions would be on the apps.
  [*:1wep8x2a]In late November I contacted some auxiliary recommenders
  [*:1wep8x2a]In the first week of December I sent out the packet to my letter writers with a list of schools I was applying to, my SoP, my CV and a copy of my transcript. I dropped a physical packet off a few days later with paperwork for the two schools I was applying to that still used non-electronic letters.
  [*:1wep8x2a]The second week of December I sat down for two days and filled out every application for all the schools.
  [*:1wep8x2a]My first LoR writer submitted only a few days after the deadline, my second three weeks after the deadline and my last almost two months after the deadline. One of my auxiliary writers came through to at least put most of my applications in a "complete" state so that by the time they were being reviewed I had three letters of rec even though I was hoping to have four. The first school that accepted me did so with only 2 of 3 letters.
  [*:1wep8x2a]Oh, that came in late late January along with an interview request. Two weeks later I had half my decisions, almost all the rest were in by mid March or so.

3) Do you shoot big and cross your fingers, or do you shoot realistic?

Both. 11 apps gets you pretty far in terms of shooting at a few places you don't expect and a few you might.

The results were a bit surprising actually. In some cases the top schools and the bottom schools I applied to were interested in my application and the schools in the middle were not. It was a bit odd.

4) Should I be published in any way, or should I concentrate on grades, LoR's, and statements?

LoRs are one of the most important aspects of your application. I know that's what got me in to the school I ended up selecting. (I met with my potential advisor last weekend and he introduced me to one of his colleagues as "the guy with those recommendation letters", I'm pretty sure it was meant in a good way.)

Publishing really helps (especially with the rec letters) but it isn't necessary. Having experience in research is important too, even if you don't end up publishing.

[aaron.dewald]

Wow. Stories and belowthree. I appreciate the quick feedback! I'm so glad I found this forum! +1

Like you, Stories, my thoughts of PhD came last semester - year 1 of the MED. I had put some time into an Educational Psychology course and really, really enjoyed it. I wound up doing well in the class and thought... I could see myself doing this! I started peeking around at PhD requirements last month and started to get serious about it at the beginning of this month.

Belowthree... I appreciate your timeline as well. It's nice to see how other people take approaches to this. It helps me (and I hope others who eventually stumble upon this) solidify and understand the game plan.

I asked the shoot high vs realistic question because I'm in an interesting position.

Currently, I work at the U of Utah College of Law as the Director of the Technology Initiative. Been there just over 3 years. I don't have a JD and I'm not a law student (I am always asked). The cool thing is a lot of what I'm learning in my M.Ed. program directly relates to my 'real-life' work and vice-versa. I was a web programmer before hand so I'm interested in the learning psychology behind the tools we develop and create for faculty and staff. Have the technical background... working on the administrative stuff, now I just need the psychology and theory behind everything!

Anyway, U employees get a nice 50% discount on tuition. Makes the M.Ed. easy to swallow. I also know a lot of people on campus and have a ton of connections here.

My 'aim high' remark was aimed more or less at Stanford. Right in the heart of Silicon Valley, and a top 2 education school to boot. They have a Learning Sciences and Technology Design program that I'm really interested in. I keep thinking, what a perfect place to study.

Seems like a popular thing to do, so here is my academic background:

BS, Information Systems (2001) North Dakota State University (GPA 3.3)

--also ran Track and Field there... fun times

Hopefully have an M.Ed. Instructional Design / Educational Technology (2010) University of Utah (GPA: 4.0.. so far)

As I mentioned, I've been working in a fairly decent capacity at the Law school for just over 3 years. Real-world experience has to count for something... right?

I think I can get 3 pretty good LoR from admins at the law school, and probably one in my MED program.

For some reason, I don't think it's enough. I should probably retake my GRE (540V, 630Q.. last year).. and I'm going to fret about the personal statement for the next three months.

Anyway, I really appreciate your thoughts... really nice to have a sort of 'support group' through this whole process!

Oh, one more thing. Does it make sense to try to set up times to visit campus, meet professors, etc... or is that something that doesn't usually fly? I thought I read somewhere that one should email the professors they are interested in working with, but for some reason, it seems sort of .... pestering .... I dunno.

Thanks again!

[purplepepper]

Good questions! Got me to reflect a bit on this past year..so for what it's worth:

1) When did you 'know' you wanted to get a Ph.D. Not a "since I was a kid" answer, but when did you decide it was worth the time, effort, stress, and ... time?

Honestly, I still don't "know" if I want a Ph.D. Now you might say, "hey mims3382, have you read all of those Chronicle articles where they say don't do a Ph.D. in the humanities...go out and get yourself a real job!"

Well, I've been accepted into one of the top 5 programs for my field and I'm super excited to do the work and the research (said with an MA in hand). I want to have something to do with my field, but I'm going in with an open mind about the opportunities that may present themselves along the way. I'm not set on the Ph.D. -asst. prof-tenured prof. track. It'd be nice if that worked out, but I know there are other ways to be involved with my interests. I just feel that a Ph.D. is the next step to achieving whatever I'm supposed to achieve. Ok. That did sound a bit like Miss Cleo, but I really believe instinct has a lot to do with it.

2) When did you start the application process. Part of me feels like I'm waaay to early... the other part feels like I should have started looking last year (for the 09-10 program)

I started just about now, a little earlier actually (last April). Studied my ass off for the GREs, finished my statement in August. Put it down for a month and rewrote the whole thing in October. (it's funny how bad a first draft can suck). Got recs starting in August, and worked on my writing sample around Oct/Nov.

3) Do you shoot big and cross your fingers, or do you shoot realistic?

Both. I shot big, but I made damn well sure that I needed to know how into the big schools, and I got into 3 of them. This meant asking, like , everyone. to proofread and for advice. I mean I asked everyone, friends already in phd programs, profs, my sister. It's good to get all that feedback. And I must have completely rewrote my SOP about 7 times. But don't bug anyone too much. If someone doesn't respond, just let it go and move on.

4) Should I be published in any way, or should I concentrate on grades, LoR's, and statements?

I have no publications. Just focused on my statements and made sure I had good LORs.

Oh, one more thing. Does it make sense to try to set up times to visit campus, meet professors, etc... or is that something that doesn't usually fly?

I was successful in meeting prospective advisers ahead of time. Obviously, that has no bearing on whether you'll get in or not, but in the end, if the prof. can put a face to the name and remember who you are when they are reviewing your application, it has to help even a tinsy bit. So go for it, but if they don't respond after 2 emails, just leave it be. It doesn't mean they aren't interested, maybe they have a policy on meeting future students..I'm sure some people are just like that.

[Stories]

My 'aim high' remark was aimed more or less at Stanford. Right in the heart of Silicon Valley, and a top 2 education school to boot. They have a Learning Sciences and Technology Design program that I'm really interested in. I keep thinking, what a perfect place to study.

For some reason, I don't think it's enough. I should probably retake my GRE (540V, 630Q.. last year).. and I'm going to fret about the personal statement for the next three months.

Oh, one more thing. Does it make sense to try to set up times to visit campus, meet professors, etc... or is that something that doesn't usually fly? I thought I read somewhere that one should email the professors they are interested in working with, but for some reason, it seems sort of .... pestering .... I dunno.

Thanks again!

Stanford probably has a ton of applicants. It's always nice to apply because you never know. But whenever applying to schools that probably get 50 applicants per 1 spot available in the program, don't get your hopes up too much. Graduate admissions are nothing near predictable (like undergrad).

Your GRE is fine. It's not a deal breaker either way.

Campus meetings definitely help attach a face and contact to an application. But it doesn't significantly impact your ability to get in, though. Remember, doctoral programs really focus on what you "publish", in this case, the application materials you put together. That is by far the biggest component. Unless of course your program interviews, then your face and way you present yourself matters, too

[fuzzylogician]

My answers:

1. I 'knew' I wanted a PhD after my first semester of undergrad. During my third year (last of undergrad) I decided I needed to boost my profile so I applied to and eventually won a scholarship to study a year abroad. During that year, I got to work with some big names, collaborate on two research projects, present at a conference and be published once. That's when I knew I was hooked. It's a wonderful feeling presenting ideas to colleagues.

2. Let's see. I:

- Prepared a list of places I wanted to apply to around May of last year. I took my time consulting professors and reading potential advisers' websites and current work.

- Took the GRE and TOEFL in June (started studying vocab around March and for the rest in May).

- Wrote a preliminary version of the SoP in August; put is aside for a month or so, and then kicked its ass in revisions all through October.

- My writing sample was pretty much ready so I only read it over once or twice to make sure there were no typos - did that sometime in October.

- Asked for recommendation letters in October; sent my writers complete packets with all of my info around that time. Sent them periodical reminders every so often right up to the deadline. Practically all of my recommenders sent in their letters on the last day (or later).

- Ordered transcripts in October, sent them to schools in November.

- Created a CV in November.

- Started filling in apps one at a time. Took about 2-3 days per app to make sure I had everything right. Read each personalized SOP a gazillion times to make sure there were no embarrassing mistakes like the wrong school name. Still misspelled a potential adviser's name. Uh. -- Late November - late December.

3. My field is very small. I applied to every place that had more than one potential adviser who I wanted to work with. I ended up with 8 places - 3 that are ranked in the top 5, one that doesn't even appear in the ratings. The main thing is that all of the schools were places I would want to go to if I was accepted. My advice is to apply to places that fit your goals, those are the places you have the best chances being admitted to.

4. Being published will obviously help, but it's not a must. Your GPA and GRE will likely get you over any initial cutoffs at most schools, so I would say, concentrate on having a strong SOP and LORs. Also spend time on your writing sample, if one is required. It's the best chance you'll get to show you ability to do research.

My academic background before applying to schools:

- BA in linguistics with a GPA of 97 (on a scale of 0-100).

- 1 year abroad, working towards a MA in linguistics, GPA 1.15 (can't remember if the scale was 1-4 or 1-5).

- worked on two projects; presented in a (small) international conference and had the paper published in the proceedings.

- finishing my MA this year back at my home university.

- working as a RA on two projects, on full scholarship funded by my department.

- working as a TA in two courses in my specialization.

[noojens]

Are you going to work with Noam

[fuzzylogician]

I hope I get to take some classes with him, but I'm mainly interested in semantics, not syntax, so no.

[aginath]

Kindred spirits are we, Aaron. My masters is in Agricultural Education, but I specialized in Educational Technology. I'll be working on my PhD in Learning Design & Technology at UGA in the fall.

1) When did you 'know' you wanted to get a Ph.D. Not a "since I was a kid" answer, but when did you decide it was worth the time, effort, stress, and ... time?

At the end of my first semester of my master's program. I had just wrapped up my first semester of grad school with a 4.0 and realized I craved learning in the social science graduate environment. I completed my degree in four semesters (including summer) and knew I would be back. I've spent the last nine years in the work force missing it every single day.

2) When did you start the application process. Part of me feels like I'm waaay to early... the other part feels like I should have started looking last year (for the 09-10 program)

I started scouting school websites in June 08 for fall 09 admission. I took the GRE in August (since my scores were long expired; started studying in June) and had my first application packet complete by September 1. This was mostly due to a visitation program at UGA with a deadline in September (visitation in November). It meant having all of my ducks in a row early on, but it paid off in the end. In January, I applied to NC State and IU. The frustrating part was having my applications in well in advance, but still having to wait until late March for responses.

Sounds like to me you're right on track.

3) Do you shoot big and cross your fingers, or do you shoot realistic?

I did a little of both. I consulted profs from my masters on where to apply. The overwhelming response was UGA. It was through my own research that I sought out the IU Learning Sciences program. NC State C&I was more or less third choice and last resort. Reading websites that talk about 10% acceptance rates don't do much for the ego when applying, but I was overwhelmingly relieved when I was accepted to all three.

4) Should I be published in any way, or should I concentrate on grades, LoR's, and statements?

Publishing helps, but don't kill yourself. My only publication is in effect an informal white paper picked up by a regional council for eLearning. I have busted my butt over the past year and a half to get picked up as a speaker at state and local events. ASTD and the eLearning Guild never accepted my proposals, but I have spoken at the Texas Distance Learning Association annual conference as well as a few regional seminars. Keep in mind that I've been in the workforce for the past nine years. I'm not coming straight out of academics and felt I had to prove my worth to get back in. It was a double edged sword, though. In my interview with UGA, they said I looked stellar on paper, but were concerned that they don't really prepare anyone for industry (moreso for academics). I had to impress upon them my desire to return to academia and get out of industry.

Your LoRs can make or break you in some cases. Make sure you ask people who will speak specifically to your skills and aspirations. I have maintained contact with a number of my faculty and was honored to include my former department head, committee chair, and one faculty member who is now the Associate VP for Student Affairs at Texas A&M among my letters.

Your personal statement is of utmost importance. The visitation at UGA showed me that. I was able to meet with faculty from other departments as part of that program who gave wonderful insight as to how statements are used and what they look for in a good statement. All too often, applicants recycle statements (which in and of itself is fine), but fail to tailor the document to the school/program or revise it after sending to a different school. Think of your personal statement as your own love letter to convince your soul mate how perfect you are for one another.

I was hoping someone could give me a sketch of a map of what to think, what to expect. I would like to think I have a decent academic/professional background... but I really. have. no. idea. where. to. start. To paraphrase someone else on the forum, "I'm reading the posts here and I am already nervous - and I haven't even applied!"

Baby steps. Take baby steps. Map out a plan. Identify schools to apply. List out requirements in a grid if you need to and focus on knocking out each item.

[aaron.dewald]

Wow... you guys are awesome. I'll post something more substantive later this evening, but just wanted to thank everyone (thus far) for their responses.. It's encouraging, anyway.

More to come.

[rae]

1) When did you 'know' you wanted to get a Ph.D. Not a "since I was a kid" answer, but when did you decide it was worth the time, effort, stress, and ... time?

I feel like I got into the PhD game a little later than others. I started working in a lab my senior year of undergrad as a research technologist. I enjoy the lab work, but after awhile I realized that I would never have enough input or room for creativity in this position. I need to be the ringleader, if you will It was really the last two quarters of my senior year that I decided to apply for grad school, but I chose to wait and apply for Fall '09 admission (I graduated in '07).

2) When did you start the application process. Part of me feels like I'm waaay to early... the other part feels like I should have started looking last year (for the 09-10 program)

I started gathering information on schools during the summer and I asked for letters of recommendation in September. I also started writing my SOP toward the end of summer and I took the GREs in August.

3) Do you shoot big and cross your fingers, or do you shoot realistic?

I applied to seven schools ranging all the way from the Ivy League down. I didn't want to miss an opportunity just because I might think that I'm not "good enough" for certain schools. You never know what a program or a professor might be looking for... you may embody exactly what they want that year. You should also not apply to schools just because you think they are a safety - only apply to programs you would actually want to be admitted to. I feel like there is no such thing as safeties when it comes to graduate school admissions.

4) Should I be published in any way, or should I concentrate on grades, LoR's, and statements?

Being published is always helpful, however it is an extra on your application. I would make sure that everything required for admission is as good as you can get it before worrying about publications. I don't have a journal publication, but I do have a published abstract and a conference poster.

My stats:

BS in Psychology (University of Washington) with a 3.1 GPA.

GRE: 530v/700q

2.5 years research experience in a behavioral neuroscience lab

Published conference abstract

Conference poster presentation

[crabchicken]

1)when i come to college. or i should say when i decided to be a scientist when i was small

2)year 4. but i gain the necessary knowledge and experience starting from year 1.

3) realistic

4)aim at having more experiences. publish or grades arent sth can be guaranteed, but experiences and reading guarantee knowledge and abilities.

[snap]

Great thread guys. loads of info, i keep on coming back here just to remind myself.

I only have the answer to the 1st question.

I decided to get a PHD last month. I completed undergrad in Dec 08, Biochemistry. currently work as a lab assistant (part time), havent found a real job yet. I was accepted in 2 schools for MS w/ no funding hence declined. from where i am standing i only have one way out, get a phd w/ funding.