Ph.D., DrPH or MPH?

[Cog-Neuro Guy]

I have a dilemma that I wanted to reach out to this nice diverse forum about. I am currently a graduate student (M.S.) in cognitive neuroscience at a local state university (starting my second/ last year). Prior to this I obtained my B.A. in sociology with a minor in psychology from a decent state university here in Texas. I have been a graduate research assistance at a collaborating medical university for over a year with 3 posters as second author at some very well known national conferences in clinical neuropsychology, I have a manuscript I am second author on that is currently being submitted to a well read journal in clinical neuropsychology with additional posters and an additional manuscript in production. All the while I am also a psychometrist at the same university medical center I had been a GRA at. 

 

My research interests are pretty broad, but if I had to narrow it down, it would involve both sociological, psychological and the cognitive neuroscience of LGBT population and psychopathology. The research I have been assisting with has been interesting, but nothing I would get too excited about, often times I have to force myself to do something with a general lack in enthusiasm about the subject matter. However, the skills I am learning and the experience I am developing are invaluable, which is why I continue to do it.

 

Ok...so, here is the kicker: a doctorate is my ultimate goal, I have considered several Ph.D. options in many disciplines that align with what I have discussed thus far (psychological anthropology, cognitive neuroscience, biological sociology, public health). I am finding that my interests really do align well within public health, especially the pursuit of a focused area such as the LGBT population and the sociological, biological and psychological aspects in schemata development and neuro-psychopathology. Would my interests here fit well with public health, if so, could I enter a Ph.D. or DrPH with my current M.S.? Would you recommend the MPH before hand or go straight for the doctorate?

 

My stats:

 

CGPA: 3.24

Major GPA: 3.77

Minor GPA: 3.66

Last 2 year: 3.75

Graduate GPA: 3.5 (and increasing with two more semester/ 18 more hours left)

 

GRE:

V: 16%

Q: 3%

AW: 80%

 

I realize most people will encourage retaking the GRE, which is obvious, but for argument's sake, let's say it is a fixed variable at the moment and will not change. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. 

Edited July 30, 2014 by Cog-Neuro Guy

[GeoDUDE!]

You should apply to international programs; every department that requires the GRE will have to appeal the graduate school to admit you, and they need a good reason to do so.

 

Those GRE scores are beyond any excuses, in my opinion. 

Edited July 30, 2014 by GeoDUDE!

[Jokenberry]

Just to echo what Geo said, you'll have to apply to programs that do not require a GRE. because no program that does require a GRE can accept you even if they really wanted to. IME, programs that do not require the GRE are generally not programs I'd recommend attending. AFAIK, this is true of an MPH and doctorate (in public health, at least).

 

So if we're assuming the GRE stays as is (for argument's sake), then you'd probably need to apply and attend out of country or in a program that doesn't require a GRE.

[themmases]

Public health is one area you could find a home for your interests-- you probably know that there are several. Also, public health and psychology (and maybe other fields related to your work) are areas where it's common for PhDs to practice professionally and even do research without being traditional academic faculty, which I'd consider a plus. I think work environment, funding and public interest, likelihood of getting your first choice type of job, and how good your Plan B jobs are should all play into choosing a field when you think your work would fit into more than one. The need for public health practitioners is always great, and public health and biostatistical approaches are always being applied to new problems. Research institutions including hospitals like epidemiologists and biostatisticians because they can be collaborators on many studies and improve their design and analysis. But many of us are employed by governments or on projects funded by government grants, so optimism about how many of us will actually be able to be hired seems to go with the times. (This year, the BLS' estimate of the rate of epidemiologist job growth dropped down to about the same rate as all other jobs, from a projected rate nearly as fast as statisticians. It's not hard to figure out why, in the U.S., this should be so.)

 

If you do decide to apply to public health programs, you shouldn't do MPH first. Your MS is related enough, and the MPH is a professional degree that is terminal for most of the people who earn it. It wouldn't hold you back-- it's a great program and people with the MPH do go on to doctoral programs-- but its purpose is more practice oriented. People who know they will want to go on to public health PhDs are more likely to do an MS, and you'll already have that. If you get to a public health PhD program and feel you have gaps in your knowledge, you can patch them then with research or coursework.

 

I'm guessing the GRE score you posted is a typo or has a major extenuating circumstance you didn't mention for you to be in an MS program now, but you should retake the GRE. The weight given to quant vs verbal will depend on your specific concentration, but 50th percentile or above is a must and 70th or above is competitive, in general, for public health.

[Cog-Neuro Guy]

I have several other factors that allowed me to be competitive enough to get into the M.S. program, but my GRE scores I posted are the correct ones in percentile format. From a lot of the posts I have read, getting into an MPH program won't be an issue, however the DrPH or Ph.D. is what I worry about. I would most likely focus in the behavioral health concentration in public health.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Cog-Neuro Guy

[Jokenberry]

Would you mind sharing those other factors? Just curious, at this point.

[Cog-Neuro Guy]

I was a professional classical musician for 15 years, taught, played for several orchestras here in the US (Boston Ballet, Lyric Opera, Harvard, MIT, among others), I was a high achiever in music, got several fellowships to attend and perform at music festivals (academia's equivalent to a conference, but 10X more intense and longer). I had good letters of recommendation, I wrote a good statement of purpose, I showed a nice linear progression in my grades in undergrad. 

[Jokenberry]

Wow. That sounds pretty cool. Thanks for sharing.

[themmases]

Thanks for sharing! I would definitely call that a major extenuating circumstance, and very cool. I have a former classmate who is interested in both neuroscience and music, and it's a very interesting intersection from the glimpses I get of his work. 

[Cog-Neuro Guy]

Overall...what is the acceptance rate (generally) for DrPH as well as a Ph.D. in public health? I know in clinical/counseling psychology they typically take on somewhere between 2-16% of applicants with most getting in with a 3.5-3.9 GPA and a 1100+ GRE.

[Pol]

You can do better on the GRE randomly guessing, my suggestion is to retake it and instead of actually trying to answer just guess.

[juilletmercredi]

I'm going to send you a PM because I think you would be perfect for my PhD program - you'd just have to raise your GRE scores (by a lot).

 

I actually don't think that your MS is related enough for DrPH programs - most of the time, DrPH programs want someone who already has an MPH.  They say a "related degree," but by that they would mean something like an MA in health education or an MHS from Johns Hopkins.  DrPH programs usually have reduced coursework as compared to a PhD, and the reason for that is because they're expecting you to have already taken the basic public health coursework.  You'd be mostly filling in electives and such.  All of my friends with DrPHs or who are working in DrPH programs right now had an MPH before beginning.

 

To be 100%, given your interests - and especially if your research involves fMRI at all - I think that public health actually probably isn't the best primary field for you.  I could see you fitting in more in a department with cognitive psych or neuroscience as your first concentration, but somewhere at which you had the ability to take classes in public health and collaborate with a person who did LGBT health research.  Or in a psychology department where you could major in neuroscience or cognition and minor in health or clinical psych.  UCLA actually might be a really good department for you - they have behavioral neuroscience, health psych, and clinical psych.  Not sure who would be good on the BNS side, but on the clinical side there's Vickie Mays and Rena Repetti, and in health psych there's basically everyone lol.  UCLA also has a top-ranked SPH so if you wanted to take classes in public health, you could.

 

Another really great place for you could be UConn.  The BNS side has Robert Astur & John Salamone, who both do the neuroscience of psychopathology.  The health/clinical/social side has Seth Kalichman, who is HUGE in the field of public health psychology and specifically the health of LGBT populations.  They also have Diane Quinn (who studies stigma and mental health, often in LGBT populations) and Blair Johnson (who also does research on stigma and HIV prevention in minority populations).  I think that'd be a really good place for you.

 

Other departments you might want to check out are University of Miami (behavioral medicine or behavioral neuroscience) and the CUNY Graduate Center (they have both cognitive/behavioral neuroscience and health psych, and people who do research on LGBT issues as well as the neural bases of psychopathology).

[niihla08]

You can't get into any schools (MPH or PHD) with those GRE scores. Doesn't matter how great everything else is, those are just atrocious and I don't think they would even proceed with looking at the rest of your app if they see that. Did something happen while taking the exam?  Definitely take the GRE again!!!

 

For Phd programs, though most schools don't list an average score, since the programs are super competitive I know people who get in score 165+ on V and Q. Sorry to say but a high GRE won't get you into any school, but a low one will definitely keep you out. It is more of a check on the check list and yours is going to keep you out.