Hey, Medievalists... (Fall 2015)

[jhefflol]

I know, right? Poor guy. His name is actually Æthelred the Ill-Advised (unræd literally means "evil counsel); I really think it was less that he made bad choices and more that his choices turned out badly, in that the Danes won and took over English rule. But we translate his name as "unready" and peg him as incompetent rather than unlucky... it's a pretty crappy historical legacy.

 

Crazy stuff. I looked him up on Wikipedia and learned that it was under his rule that the Battle of Maldon took place. What a monumental event! I think that makes the find even more interesting. I wonder if the coins will have anything to do with the tributes.

[Metatronos]

Alright Medievalists,

 

I have a question pertaining to finding a job with a Medieval Studies PhD. program.  With this particular degree, will it be quite attractive to employers when applying for jobs, or will it hinder the process all together?  I just wonder where one would end up, meaning which department at a specific school, if they were to undertake such a course of study.  Is it all dependent upon which area of emphasis you concentrate on? Do enlighten me on this matter. Thanks. 

Edited February 14, 2015 by Metatronos

[unræd]

Alright Medievalists,

 

I have a question pertaining to finding a job with a Medieval Studies PhD. program.  With this particular degree, will it be quite attractive to employers when applying for jobs, or will it hinder the process all together?  I just wonder where one would end up, meaning which department at a specific school, if they were to undertake such a course of study.  Is it all dependent upon which area of emphasis you concentrate on? Do enlighten me on this matter. Thanks. 

 

Are you thinking about Medieval Studies programs, or is this just a general question about the state of the discipline(s)?

 

There are, essentially, no jobs in the United States in anything called "Medieval Studies." None. Period, full stop. Because of the way universities are structured, most Medieval Studies programs don't house their own faculty, but rely on faculty in affiliated departments. That means that anyone graduating with a PhD in a topic like Medieval Studies (and this holds true for other interdisciplinary degrees as well) will have to be able to sell themselves primarily as a historian, a literary scholar, an art historian (or whatever), to a committee looking to hire someone able to teach World Civ I or Brit Lit surveys or Visual Art Through the Renaissance (or whatever), not someone able to lead advanced seminars in Beneventan paleography. Medieval Studies PhD programs recognize this, and the best ones among them make a point of preparing their graduates to seek employment in traditional, disciplinarily-bounded departments by making their students specialize in a discipline and by requiring them to take courses in that discipline outside of the medieval period. As in the case of any program in the humanities, though, much is dependent on the placement strengths of the particular school/program in question. Sometimes, to be sure, the degree can be a hindrance, but at other times it can be a definite plus; the placement rate for Notre Dame's MS PhD, for example, is pretty much 100% for people seeking tenure-track employment.

 

Edited to remove (probably unnecessary) snark on my part.

Edited February 14, 2015 by unræd

[Metatronos]

Are you thinking about Medieval Studies programs, or is this just a general question about the state of the discipline(s)?

 

There are, essentially, no jobs in the United States in anything called "Medieval Studies." None. Period, full stop. Because of the way universities are structured, most Medieval Studies programs don't house their own faculty, but rely on faculty in affiliated departments. That means that anyone graduating with a PhD in a topic like Medieval Studies (and this holds true for other interdisciplinary degrees as well) will have to be able to sell themselves primarily as a historian, a literary scholar, an art historian (or whatever), to a committee looking to hire someone able to teach World Civ I or Brit Lit surveys or Visual Art Through the Renaissance (or whatever), not someone able to lead advanced seminars in Beneventan paleography. Medieval Studies PhD programs recognize this, and the best ones among them make a point of preparing their graduates to seek employment in traditional, disciplinarily-bounded departments by making their students specialize in a discipline and by requiring them to take courses in that discipline outside of the medieval period. As in the case of any program in the humanities, though, much is dependent on the placement strengths of the particular school/program in question. Sometimes, to be sure, the degree can be a hindrance, but at other times it can be a definite plus; the placement rate for Notre Dame's MS PhD, for example, is pretty much 100% for people seeking tenure-track employment.

 

Edited to remove (probably unnecessary) snark on my part.

Earlier last year, I contacted Notre Dame about their program, inquiring about their faculty in Islamic Studies.  The director of the Medieval Institute, Dr. Constable, who passed away a few months later,  followed up and strongly suggested that I apply to their program.  This program is truly enticing, but my area of interest requires that I learn Persian, which is not offered at Notre Dame.  I do not mind teaching myself, for that is how I usually learn another language anyway. I just needed more information about job placement with such a degree, for I will need to be able to market that I am suitable to teach in a Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations department. Although I have my apprehensions, I applied at Dr. Constable's request, and I am still waiting to hear back from the admissions committee. 

[unræd]

Earlier last year, I contacted Notre Dame about their program, inquiring about their faculty in Islamic Studies.  The director of the Medieval Institute, Dr. Constable, who passed away a few months later,  followed up and strongly suggested that I apply to their program.  This program is truly enticing, but my area of interest requires that I learn Persian, which is not offered at Notre Dame.  I do not mind teaching myself, for that is how I usually learn another language anyway. I just needed more information about job placement with such a degree, for I will need to be able to market that I am suitable to teach in a Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations department. Although I have my apprehensions, I applied at Dr. Constable's request, and I am still waiting to hear back from the admissions committee. 

 

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the finalists for admission were notified of their status and invited to the interview weekend a couple of weeks ago. Best of luck this season!

[Metatronos]

I have checked my status everyday on the application website, and I have yet to see anything come across that notifies me of anything. 

[unræd]

I have checked my status everyday on the application website, and I have yet to see anything come across that notifies me of anything. 

 

Notifications for both the initial Skype interview round and the upcoming finalist weekend were all via email; statuses on the website don't appear to have yet been updated.

[Metatronos]

Notifications for both the initial Skype interview round and the upcoming finalist weekend were all via email; statuses on the website don't appear to have yet been updated.

 

I have not received an email of any kind from the department. I guess I will contact them on Monday. 

[Hannalore]

Since it looks like I'm going to definitely be attending a PhD program in the Fall I know I need to immediately throw myself headlong into learning Latin. I have never had the opportunity to take a class in it, so all I have is the knowledge gleaned from attending Catholic school through my childhood.

 

Does anyone have any tips for the best books or programs to use to try and get a leg up on this? My advisor has suggest Wheelock's Latin, but I wanted to see what the rest of you think.

 

Similarly, as somebody who'd very much like Anglo-Saxon literature to be their specialty, are there any good resources available for learning Old English? I am obviously not in the same category as unræd and hreaðemus, but I find it so fun that I've "met" two other Anglo-Saxonists on this website when I was told they were so few and far between!

[Metatronos]

Since it looks like I'm going to definitely be attending a PhD program in the Fall I know I need to immediately throw myself headlong into learning Latin. I have never had the opportunity to take a class in it, so all I have is the knowledge gleaned from attending Catholic school through my childhood.

 

Does anyone have any tips for the best books or programs to use to try and get a leg up on this? My advisor has suggest Wheelock's Latin, but I wanted to see what the rest of you think.

 

Similarly, as somebody who'd very much like Anglo-Saxon literature to be their specialty, are there any good resources available for learning Old English? I am obviously not in the same category as unræd and hreaðemus, but I find it so fun that I've "met" two other Anglo-Saxonists on this website when I was told they were so few and far between!

 

I taught myself Latin using Hans Orberg's Lingua Latina program. If you can read classical Latin, medieval Latin is a pretty easy, for many of the steadfast rules were relaxed over time. If you start the book now, you will be fine come Fall.  I recommend you get the college companion text by Jeanne Marie Neumann with it. This is the natural method approach to learning Latin.

 

However, if you desire the grammar base approach, I would suggest that you pick either Latin: An Intensive Course by Moreland and Fleischer or Learn to Read Latin by Keller and Russell.  Wheelock, in my opinion, is not as good as these aforementioned texts. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Lingua-Latina-per-Illustrata-Pars/dp/158510423X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423930205&sr=8-1&keywords=Lingua+Latina(GET THE HARDCOVER, PAPERBACK is JUNK!)

 

http://www.amazon.com/Learn-Read-Latin-Text-Workbook/dp/0300109377/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1423930257&sr=8-2&keywords=Learn+to+Read+Latin

 

http://www.amazon.com/Latin-Intensive-Floyd-L-Moreland/dp/0520031830/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423930285&sr=8-1&keywords=latin+an+intensive+course

Edited February 14, 2015 by Metatronos

[unræd]

My God, Hannalore, why did you not say until now that you're a budding Anglo-Saxonist!

 

If you navigate back to page two of this thread, you'll find a long post I did with tips/hints/whatever (including some bibliographic recommendations) for learning Old English. Basically, I really recommend Peter Baker's Introduction to Old English, which is available both as a pretty cheap book (make sure to get the most recent edition) and entirely free online, for someone entirely new to the language. It "walks" you through things, as it were, much more than Mitchell and Robinson's Guide to Old English, which is sort of the standard text (and an excellent book!) but perhaps not as useful to someone learning on their own, unless they have a background in learning dead languages from books. (If you do, though, go straight there!) 

 

In re Latin, trust your advisor more than strangers on the internet. But I will say that I'm decidedly "meh" on Wheelock--it's great for giving you solid morphological skills, but I hear people who've used it sometimes struggle with moving to real, unadapted, continuous Latin more so than with other approaches. The Lingua Latina series is indeed nice (and I also hear excellent things about Yale's Learn to Read Latin, although I have no experience with it myself), but especially if your goal is reading quickly, I think it's hard to beat Cambridge's Reading Latin series, which also has more resources for self study than either of the above. It's also a direct lead in to Cambridge's Reading Medieval Latin, which is (without a doubt) the best/most helpful Medieval Latin reader on the market.

[Metatronos]

Since it looks like I'm going to definitely be attending a PhD program in the Fall I know I need to immediately throw myself headlong into learning Latin. I have never had the opportunity to take a class in it, so all I have is the knowledge gleaned from attending Catholic school through my childhood.

 

Does anyone have any tips for the best books or programs to use to try and get a leg up on this? My advisor has suggest Wheelock's Latin, but I wanted to see what the rest of you think.

 

Similarly, as somebody who'd very much like Anglo-Saxon literature to be their specialty, are there any good resources available for learning Old English? I am obviously not in the same category as unræd and hreaðemus, but I find it so fun that I've "met" two other Anglo-Saxonists on this website when I was told they were so few and far between!

 

Also, you should note that the Lingua Latina series continues after the initial text. Ensure that you check the publisher's website and Amazon for their selection of numerous texts. The second book, Roma Aeterna, commences your reading of classical authors like Caesar, Vergil, Cicero, Livy, etc. If you can read Cicero, you will be in excellent shape. If you can read Tacitus, few can do so well, then you will run circles around your colleagues. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Roma-Aeterna-Pars-Lingua-Latina/dp/1585103144/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423931269&sr=8-1&keywords=lingua+latina+roma+aeterna

[Ramus]

Medievalist folks: I'm trying to introduce myself to Gower, but I'm having a bit of trouble tracking down a modern edition of his works. Do you all know of any readily available editions suitable for a first-timer? I'm hoping to find an edition of Vox Clamantis or (excerpts of) Confessio Amantis. Something like a Norton Critical Edition would be great. A bilingual facing edition might be even better. 

[unræd]

I do indeed! The texts put out by the TEAMS Middle English Texts Series are generally excellent, and I've used the first volume of their complete three-volume Confessio (it has books 1 and 8, so you can read the frame story portions), and found it quite nice. It's not bilingual, but Gower's ME isn't that tricky, and as always, TEAMS editions come with copious glossing (and the introductory material/annotations are good, as well). Also, they make all of their texts available for free online--I like hardcopies, but their online interface is much better than you'd think given the amount of paratextual elements they need to juggle. Different strokes, etc etc etc.

 

The link to the overall TEAMS project webpage, which will give you info on ordering published volumes if you can't find them in your library, is here; the link to the "G" page of their online text repository, where you'll see they have a ton ("tonne"?) of Gower, is here.

Edited February 14, 2015 by unræd

[kurayamino]

I learned Latin through Latin Via Ovid by Norma Goldman which has both the textbook and a workbook. It moved at the right pace for me, but I did find that once participles and deponent verbs were introduce that I needed some outside help. To which http://apps.nationalarchives.gov.uk/latin/advanced/default.htmwas helpful.

 

Also, you'll find that a chart will be immeasurably useful. Something that you can use as a reference over and over again without needing to crack open a book. Sorry for the Amazon link, but http://smile.amazon.com/Latin-Grammar-Quickstudy-Inc-BarCharts/dp/1572228350/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423938955&sr=8-1&keywords=latin+chartwas SO helpful for me because it was laminated and easily accessible.

 

Wheelock is kind of useful as secondary material, but I wouldn't use it as a primary source. I'm not a medievalist though so perhaps some of the other sources will serve you better for medieval Latin.

[unræd]

I learned Latin through Latin Via Ovid by Norma Goldman which has both the textbook and a workbook.

 

I love that book! And it doesn't get nearly enough love.

[hreaðemus]

Similarly, as somebody who'd very much like Anglo-Saxon literature to be their specialty, are there any good resources available for learning Old English? I am obviously not in the same category as unræd and hreaðemus, but I find it so fun that I've "met" two other Anglo-Saxonists on this website when I was told they were so few and far between!

 

Pish, I second unræd! If you want to specialize in Anglo-Saxon lit, I'd say you're in exactly the same category as us - or as me, anyway! How exciting to have another early medievalist around!

 

I, personally, have only been a budding Anglo-Saxonist for about a year, so I was in much the same boat as you six months ago. The Latin class I took used Keller and Russell's Learn To Read Latin, and I can affirm that it's a good choice - very thorough and precise, while still acting as an instruction rather than a reference manual. That said, I would get into a class as quick as you can - while you may, like some people I can think of ( ), be naturally brilliant at Latin, I personally find the advanced grammar to be confusing, and having a real human being to clarify the text can be invaluable. You might ask your prospective Ph.D. programs what support they offer in terms of learning languages; I know some places fund summer study and things like that. 

 

As for OE, Baker is a good choice, particularly if you sign up for the online practice material (which are free with the book) at oldenglishaerobics.net; his style is very conversational, though, and IMHO doesn't offer a whole lot of structure for navigating individual syntactic features of the language. I'm honestly not sure that there's a GREAT textbook out there at the moment - but I have it on good authority that that there will be in a few years, so by the time we're teaching OE the options may have improved.

 

In any case, I'm so happy you've joined us on the dark side!

Edited February 14, 2015 by hreaðemus

[unræd]

As for OE, Baker is a good choice, particularly if you sign up for the online practice material (which are free with the book) at oldenglishaerobics.net; his style is very conversational, though, and IMHO doesn't offer a whole lot of structure for navigating individual syntactic features of the language. I'm honestly not sure that there's a GREAT textbook out there at the moment - but I have it on good authority that that there will be in a few years, so by the time we're teaching OE the options may have improved.

 

Yeah, that's very much the issue with Baker. Have you seen Fulk's textbook? A friend of mine has a copy and says good things, but I haven't examined it at length.

[__________________________]

I learned Latin on Wheelock's.  The Latin class I took in college was basically teaching ourselves Latin with the book while the teacher answered questions and gave us exams when we asked for them.  It kind of sucked.  I sort of learned Latin that way.  A tutor helped a lot, as did simply taking lit classes that forced me to get better.  My experience was: get the grammar basics and then just start reading shit until it starts to stick more.  I still don't consider myself fluent in reading Latin, but I can work through it and do work with it.

 

I meant to do this a couple years ago, but didn't have time because of my work schedule:

 

https://sites.google.com/a/swarthmore.edu/medieval-latin-summer-2013-the-gesta-francorum/

 

I'm going to try and partake in that if it's offered this summer and if my schedule works for it this time around.  We used Turpin's edition of the Gesta Francorum in my Medieval Latin Lit/Paleography course though as a sight-reading text for getting classes started, and I think you can download that text there, which is pretty amusing, especially if you're interested in medieval history writing and the first crusade.

 

I can also affirm how legit TEAMS is -- especially since they have so  much material available online for free, including meticulously annoted editions with great introductions and bibliographies.  I don't have any of their physical printed editions, but they are pretty cheap.

 

For OE, I started learning last semester with just a grammar and a copy of Pope and Fulk's Eight Old English Poems with an informal, small reading group.  Recently started working through Beowulf with an even smaller, more informal reading group.  

 

Any recommendations for a good OE dictionary though?  There're so many sketchy editions of A Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary floating around on the internet that I don't know what to get and I get sick of just using the online edition of Bosworth-Toller all the time...

[hreaðemus]

Any recommendations for a good OE dictionary though?  There're so many sketchy editions of A Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary floating around on the internet that I don't know what to get and I get sick of just using the online edition of Bosworth-Toller all the time...

 

Get the U of Toronto edition of A Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary - it's the white one with a blue cut-out on the front. It's more expensive than the sketchy versions, but also WAY easier to read, and comes recommended by my mentor here at Berkeley. You can get it here: http://www.utppublishing.com/A-Concise-Anglo-Saxon-dictionary.html

[unræd]

• There's really only one good student dictionary--the Clark Hall & Meritt, but BE WARNED: Amazon abounds w/ unscrupulous vendors of public-domain OCRd copies based on old editions that are uniformly crappy and to be avoided. You want the 4th edition published in the Medieval Academy Reprints for Teaching series, put out by Toronto. It's the one w/ the blue and white cover with OE text in an inset window, and can be found here. 

 

Yeah, I'm quoting myself, I know--but that link takes you to the correct edition, with the correct ISBN's. Yes, it sucks there are so many crappy OCR pirates of bad editions, but that's really it as far as hardcopy OE dictionaries that aren't the B & T, which is too much gun for the hunt most of the time.

[unræd]

She beat me to it!

[__________________________]

Get the U of Toronto edition of A Concise Anglo-Saxon Dictionary - it's the white one with a blue cut-out on the front. It's more expensive than the sketchy versions, but also WAY easier to read, and comes recommended by my mentor here at Berkeley. You can get it here: http://www.utppublishing.com/A-Concise-Anglo-Saxon-dictionary.html

 

Word.  Thanks so much!  When they have all the sketchy ones floating about sharing a page with the legit one(s), I get nervous buying things from Amazon.  I will definitely be picking this up.

 

EDIT: Didn't see you there, unraed -- thanks!

Edited February 14, 2015 by mollifiedmolloy

[Dr. Old Bill]

NOT a medievalist here, so don't fasten me to the Judas Cradle, but I want to thank you all for talking about some of these Latin resources. I've been thinking about learning Latin for awhile now (along with Italian), so I will be sure to revisit this thread when I do...possibly even this summer.

[unræd]

I meant to do this a couple years ago, but didn't have time because of my work schedule:

 

https://sites.google.com/a/swarthmore.edu/medieval-latin-summer-2013-the-gesta-francorum/

 

I'm going to try and partake in that if it's offered this summer and if my schedule works for it this time around.  We used Turpin's edition of the Gesta Francorum in my Medieval Latin Lit/Paleography course though as a sight-reading text for getting classes started, and I think you can download that text there, which is pretty amusing, especially if you're interested in medieval history writing and the first crusade.

 

We could of course always set up our own little medieval Latin translation group of the medievalists here, too.