Any chance of acceptance?

[andyyy]

Hey everybody,

I have searched through the threads for a while and could not find anything similar to my situation, so I figured I would ask for any insight.

I am going to be applying to graduate schools this year (for Fall 2015) and have been worrying a lot about my lack of research experience. I am a non-traditional student and have been working 40+ hours a week since starting college. Unfortunately, this did not allow me the time to pursue research opportunities thus far. I have started working on a research project with a professor at my school over the summer and plan to continue until I graduate (Spring 2015) but I am worried it is too little too late. Just for background, it is an organic synthesis project and I wish to attend graduate school for organic chemistry.

I explained my situation in my SOP, and I am getting LOR from my research advisor, the head of the chemistry department, another organic professor, and the assistant manager at my job (I've been there 11 years and known the manager for 9). They all know me very well and I believe will write great letters.

I am taking the general GRE this weekend and the chemistry GRE in october. I have been studying all summer, and I believe I will do well. My overall/major GPA is 4.0.

If I do well on the GRE's, is there any chance I could get into a good school? I would really like to go to UCI, and was also going to pick one from top 10, one from top 20, etc... If anybody has any advice I would be so grateful. I just do not want to waste the time preparing applications if it is not practical. Thanks in advance for any thoughts.

[peachypie]

I think you would have a good chance, so I would definitely recommend applying.  remember even research experience as an undergrad isn't considered to be very heavy research experience compared to working in a laboratory as a job.  So your summer research into fall research gives you the research experience you need and doesnt put you too differently than undergrads with a semester or two of a research project.  Best of luck.

[andyyy]

thank you so much, i appreciate your thoughts

[Whisky-with-a-Y]

Hey Andyyy. I am currently applying as well, so I can only give you my opinion; which is probably just as good as anyone elses. It is a weird situation, but not one that would hurt you too badly, I think. Not every student has the oppurtunity to just go to school and complete research. I am thankful everyday that I have a wife that works hard enough so I can devote the time in the lab and our relationship and financial status wont suffer. I think your situation can help and hurt at the same time. First off, was your job chemistry related at all? Just curious, if it was that would be great. The time missed out of the lab will be a factor, but your work ethic, in my mind, should make up for it. I cant imagine completing this degree and working 40 hour weeks, for that you have my respect. I would put that maturity and mind-set well above the majority of my peers, THE MAJORITY. I think it is super important you do some serious research this year, as much as you can get done, which you have stated you have already started. I would follow your steps if I was in the same position. Discuss a little bit in the LOR, dont make excuses, and discuss your new current research. You technically dont need to put how long you have been in the lab unless they ask. Some might require a CV, then it would be neccessary. But sometimes ambiguity can be a good thing. I wouldnt worry about it too much. Your chances for a top ten might be shot, but there are a ton of other great schools out there. Everyone thinks this top 10 thing is the only acceptable way to go and have a great career and they fail to look at any other schools. There are so many students starting to apply that it will only get harder and more competative. I would also choose, maybe a few 20-30 and 1 or 2 schools that are 30-50, but only if the research is inspiring. Organic is everywhere, so it shouldnt be too hard. Best of luck and congrats on those grades while working that much.............P.S Do well on the GRE. If you do poorly on the Chem GRE dont send it, i.e unless you are certain you will do great, do not immeadiatley report your scores. That hurts so many students, especially in the October test where all they want to do is complete their apps. Get the score, it will take an extra day and some more cash, but you can be certain if it is a good idea or not. Also, dont worry about not having any pubs. Many students dont have any and complete great research. I have friends that have done nothing but pressed go on the IR and recieved a 2nd author position. NOT all journals are created equally. Not saying there arent students who do great work, there are so many, I am just saying. If the school doesnt want you because of that, is it really a school you want to go to?

[andyyy]

hey thanks so much for your advice!

unfortunately, my job is managing a local deli/convenience store. nothing related to chemistry at all

but i will definately keep everything you said in mind. i really appreciate the help

[biochemistry professor]

Don't send a non-science related LOR from your job.

 

There are potential concerns with non-traditional students who worked a lot during college. One is whether you have serious family or financial obligations that will be an obstacle during grad school. Grad school stipends are small, and you will not be able to take a part-time job. Another concern is the rigor of your preparation since you were able to get a 4.0 while working so many hours.

[andyyy]

I appreciate the feedback. I was thinking the work LOR would attest to my work ethic, but I guess it is not a great idea. The reason i work so much is because my family moved away and I live by myself (the world is expensive). I do not have any debt that any other college student would not have. I explained this in my SOP, do you think that would help in not having them think negatively about me? I really appreciate the insight though, thank you.

[andyyy]

also, i make less than most stipends anyways lol

[biochemistry professor]

I think your accomplishments and work ethic are great, but I want to share how grad programs think.

 

It is better to have a research advisor attest to your work ethic.

 

Focus on the science. Talk about your science accomplishments and how you are looking forward to focusing 100% of your time in grad school to research instead of part time jobs (which I hope is true).

[bsharpe269]

I am going to have to disagree with the advice here about not sending the job LOR. I would send 3 letters from academia but I would also include the 4th one. Grad school doesn't want cookie cutter people who all send the exact same letters. Grad school wants people with diverse backgrounds who are dedicated. The letter will show your work ethic and will prove what you are saying in your SOP. I also completely disagree that schools will worry about his preparation due to the 4.0 and working and this is especially true if you so well on the chem GRE. Schools will find this impressive, not judge you for it. I wouldn't dwell on the job thing and lack of research experience for long but I would mention it and you can even show dedication by mentioning that you kept the job for so long because you could study during slow hours or whatever and can reinforce your dedication to chemistry through that even.

I would send the 4th letter with out a doubt in your shoes. If you feel really insure about it though then it would be a great question for your PI.

[Vene]

I also completely disagree that schools will worry about his preparation due to the 4.0 and working and this is especially true if you so well on the chem GRE.

There may be some programs which will judge this negatively, but I would imagine most would think it's a positive thing to be able to maintain a high GPA and deal with the stress of balancing work and school.

[andyyy]

thank you guys for all your insight its really helpful and gives me some hope