Chances for top neuroscience programs?

[Drdlee]

I've been working as a lab technician at Harvard for more than a year now and I would like to go to grad school for neuroscience (neurobio) programs (applying this year). I graduated from a large public school with B.S. In math with gpa 3.41 (which I know is below average among PhD applicants). For this gpa I have a very high ambition for where I want to end up with for PhD and I want you guys to tell me if the goal sounds reasonable/unreasonably high. I'm also thinking about the possibility of staying one more year as a tech to further polish my application and reapply next year. I'll appreciate any advice.

To summarize my stat and schools I apply:

UG study: math

UG gpa: 3.41 (better gpa in the last two yrs)

Post-bac study at Harvard: took some relevant UG courses and got 3As and 2A-s (~3.85)

GRE: haven't taken yet but expect Q >164

Research: about 2 years at Harvard so far (~1.5yrs as a tech)

Publication: one submitted (accepted) paper on journal Cell (4th author)

LORs: 2 good letters from Harvard profs and one letter from a prof at a different school (one thing most likely to be mentioned about me is that I work very hard)

Network: have not contacted any faculty yet as I havent developed very specific research interests (working on it)

Schools:

Harvard

MIT

Stanford

Columbia

Yale

JHU

One thing I'm worried about is that my background in biology is weak for grad study in neurobio and the set of skills I have developed as a lab tech is too specific. As mentioned I'll appreciate any advice on how to improve my chance in remaining weeks or for next year.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Drdlee

[Vene]

Top universities are tough even with ideal GPAs and it doesn't sound like you've been out of undergrad long enough for yours to stop mattering. As for your major, it's not super common, but I don't think biology programs are against bringing in math majors. Were your post-bac courses in biology? Do you plan on taking a biology subject test?

 

I do think you'll be able to get into a PhD program with those stats, but it probably not a top 10 or top 20 university. If you are set on a top university I'd say look at getting a masters degree first. I know funded ones do exist and other people here may be able to point you at them or your boss at Harvard may be able to suggest some. Also, have you talked to your boss about doing graduate school? I bet they can give you some good advice.

[Drdlee]

Thanks for your reply, Macchiato. I've been out of college for 4 years now. For my post-bac study I took two biology courses and two neurosciecne courses. The other one was math course for life sciences. I don't think I'll be taking any biology subject test this year as I don't have much time for it.

 

What are good masters degrees that are highly relevant to neuroscience? I know there are some biology masters programs but am not sure if doing those programs are better than doing 2 more years of technician. I noticed that my boss is not very excited to talk about graduate school and his mood somewhat affects his opinions.

[Vene]

I think the value of a MS is that you'd show you can handle graduate level neuroscience and could help you academically to overcome the lowish GPA. Again, I do think that if you applied to mid-tier PhD programs you'd be a solid applicant.

 

Seeing that you more or less have the equivalent of a minor in biology/neuroscience through post-bac also suggests to me that a subject test is a little less valuable.

 

As for MS programs, I'm sure there are MS degrees in neuroscience, otherwise focus on ones where there's faculty who do neuro-related research. I don't think there's any problem with getting a MS in cell biology when your thesis was on, say, membrane dynamics of neurons.

[Gvh]

I do agree with what others are saying here, though I would like to point out that a 3.4 GPA isn't a dealbreaker - I know a number of people who have got into top programs at Harvard who had a UG GPA below 3.4 with no masters. They did have good research experience and GREs though. Provided you had good GRE scores, I think it would be worth applying to a combination of MS and PhD programs - might as well give it a shot but also have some back ups just in case the PhDs don't pan out.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Gvh

[Vene]

Definitely do apply for the PhD, I don't want it to sound like I'm saying not to do it. But, have a backup plan in place.

[Drdlee]

Thanks Gvh for your slightly more optimistic view. I guess my back up plan for right now is to do one more year of lab tech (very likely in a different lab that does very different kind of research) and take some classes at the same time. 2 years of Masters should prepare me with a lot of background knowledge for sure but I'm a little afraid that I won't be able to engage in research as much as I'm right now.  

[biotechie]

Thanks Gvh for your slightly more optimistic view. I guess my back up plan for right now is to do one more year of lab tech (very likely in a different lab that does very different kind of research) and take some classes at the same time. 2 years of Masters should prepare me with a lot of background knowledge for sure but I'm a little afraid that I won't be able to engage in research as much as I'm right now.  

 

I'm writing this as a student who did a MS in molecular biology. How do you think you won't engage in research with a MS? Are you considering doing a non-thesis based MS? You should be looking into thesis-based programs. In the 2 years of my MS, I accomplished way more than I had in 4 years of teching 20-30 hours per week as an undergrad. You have to develop a process to read the literature, generate experiments, and analyze and interpret your data. You have to write your data up and present it yourself. In my opinion, immersing yourself in research means you're reading, planning, doing experiments, presenting your research, and writing about it. Your graduation usually hinges on a defense of your project, which is going to make you prove to the committee that you know your stuff. Very few tech positions do all of that, and you would definitely get it with a MS.

 

When you go for your PhD, you're going to immerse yourself even more deeply, particularly once you finish coursework.

 

My recommendation would be to apply to PhD this cycle along with a few MS programs. While jumping from lab to lab will vary the types of research you've been in, my opinion is that you'll benefit most from a MS.

[Gvh]

Thanks Gvh for your slightly more optimistic view. I guess my back up plan for right now is to do one more year of lab tech (very likely in a different lab that does very different kind of research) and take some classes at the same time. 2 years of Masters should prepare me with a lot of background knowledge for sure but I'm a little afraid that I won't be able to engage in research as much as I'm right now.  

 

I think Biotechie is right in that with the right MS program you would gain just as much valuable research experience through the course of preparing a research-based thesis. For what it's worth, my MA did not have a thesis so I was able to work as a part time research assistant while I was in school. Either way, I wouldn't worry about it - you'll find a way to polish your application if you're in a program. 

Edited September 9, 2014 by Gvh

[Drdlee]

Thanks a lot for your point, biotechie. Thesis-based masters programs slipped my mind entirely when I commented above. 

 

I will definitely consider doing masters program if the program offers a great research opportunities and coursework. So Biotechie and GVh, other than masters in biology (which I think is pretty rare in US), what other masters programs might be a good option? I actually have some interest in masters in bioengineering. Any thoughts on this program?

 

Also do schools allow people to apply to both MS and PhD when the degrees are offered by different department (or division)? I will definitely contact schools to ask about this, but I would love to hear your answers now. 

[Gvh]

I'm afraid I don't know much on funded masters - I know they exist, but you might have to do some digging to find them. About applying to two programs in the same school: unfortunately, this seems to be very school-dependent. Applying to different schools within the same institution is sometimes allowed, but applying to different programs in the same school in the same institution rarely is, in my experience. But like I said, it depends..you'd have to ask!

 

Have you tried talking to your current PI about MS programs that might be a good fit for your interests?

[Drdlee]

Thanks, Gvh. I haven't talked to my PI about MS programs that fit my interests. But I'm trying to interview some grad students here to see whether spending 2 years for masters in related field is a good idea. For some of them 2 years of masters is not really an exciting idea since the first year in PhD is designed to make up individual weaknesses in coursework and you'll be able to learn most of what you learn in MS in PhD.