Double Majors in Microbiology and Mathematics

[microbecode01]

Hello! I am a sophomore with a major in microbiology; my future goal is to attend the graduate school with virology/medical microbiology program and become a virologist specialized in the influenza & VHF viruses. Currently, I am taking the Organic Chemistry I, Immunology (graduate-level), and Biostatistics with R; I also have been working as an undergraduate researcher to the virology lab specialized in the influenza viruses.

I wrote this post because I have been debating whether I should double major in microbiology and mathematics. I found out that I am really interested in the mathematics, particularly the number theory and mathematical biology (modeling and differential equations). I talked with my adviser, and he recommended me take start all over with the Honors single-variable calculus sequence that focuses on the proof and analysis; on my freshman year, I took the Calculus I, which is just a first semester of year-long single-variable calculus. If I double major in microbiology and math, I am looking for five years before I graduate and apply for the graduate schools. Although it seems that I should just major in a microbiology and graduate in 4 years, I have been slowly realizing the importance of mathematics and statistics in the biological science (quite many biologists are not familiar with the mathematics). Should I double major in the microbiology and math? Is it advantageous to double major in a natural science and math for the graduate programs? Also is five-year plan not looked favorably by the graduate schools? I was thinking about major in microbiology and minor in math, but I think minor in math will not really train me well in the mathematics as much as major in terms of applications and depth.

I apologize for this long post, and I look forward to your great advice!

Sincerely,

MSK

[No Coffee Plz]

As you'd know, biology research is very broad, and runs the whole gamut from 100% wet labs to entirely computational labs.That being said, someone who is thoroughly versed in both benchwork and quantitative analysis is not too common, and if I were on the admissions team I would be highly impressed. Whether you should minor or major in math, that is your judgement call, and I think you should think about what you ultimately want to do with the mathematical training. I am not sure what grad schools will think about the 5th year (I remember at one interview the professor mentioning that she was impressed that I was graduating on time with good grades), but at the same time I believe they'll not see it as an handicap if you explain your situation in your SoP.

[bsharpe269]

I was a math undergrad who did biomath modeling and bioengineering research during undergrad. I have now moved into computational biophysics work and am in the process of applying to biophyics grad programs.

I really think my math major was a great foundation. I have classes in proofs and modeling which have been nothing but helpful. That being said, I think that some but not all of the math classes required for a major will be helpful for your goals. For example, modeling, linear algebra, and differential equations will be great for you. I don't see any reason for you to take abstract algebra or geometry though. A couple statistics classes and programming (maybe a python class) would be just as useful as the math.

My advice to you is to just take the relevant classss without doing the entire second major. The major will make you graduate late and you will have to take a lot of extra classes with it that will not be that useful to you. Instead of that, why not just identify the math, stat, comp sci classes that are relevant to your research goals and take those classes? You could probably get a math minor out of that method and I do think the minor will give you the math background you need for your research goals. If you want to take a couple more classes after the minor then that option will be open to you. I think this plan would be better than graduating a year late. Honestly, if you are interested in waiting an extra year before applying to grad school then that year would be much better spent in a full time research position than classes.

[Vene]

My advice to you is to just take the relevant classss without doing the entire second major. The major will make you graduate late and you will have to take a lot of extra classes with it that will not be that useful to you. Instead of that, why not just identify the math, stat, comp sci classes that are relevant to your research goals and take those classes? You could probably get a math minor out of that method and I do think the minor will give you the math background you need for your research goals. If you want to take a couple more classes after the minor then that option will be open to you. I think this plan would be better than graduating a year late. Honestly, if you are interested in waiting an extra year before applying to grad school then that year would be much better spent in a full time research position than classes.

This, absolutely 100% this. It's not that a graduate school cares if you stuck around for an extra year to get a double major, it's that a double major won't give you a meaningful advantage, especially if you do take a bunch of extra math coursework. Also, that's another year's worth of tuition you have to pay.

[microbecode01]

Thank you very much for of those helpful advices! I made up my mind and decided to just major in the microbiology and take other necessary mathematics and statistics courses. I actually enrolled the course called Mathematical Biology - Molecular Mechanics on today, which will be follow by Mathematical Biology - Systems Biology on next semester. Just curious, do graduate schools give plus points to the applicants with double majors or major and minor? Do most applicants just major in one area?

Please let me interrupt you one more time. I had talked with my microbiology advisors about the physics requirement. Although my school requires the introductory physics sequence with the lab, I changed the requirement to the 1 semester of quantum mechanics and 1 semester of thermodynamics & statistical mechanics. I think those physical areas are more helpful than other physical fields in my research, particularly the thermodynamics and statistical mechanics. Do graduate schools allow students to have this kind of modification or insist only the introductory physics sequence (except for physics programs)?

[bsharpe269]

Yes I highly recommend that modification! In grad school, the classes you have taken start mattering a lot less and knowledge is much more important. One of the most important skills to have as a grad student or academic is the ability to teach yourself material instead of having it spoon fed to you in class. Showing that you can do this by skipping the intro physics courses and taking the ones relevant to your major instead will show you can teach yourself material which is be great during the application process. Don't forget programming!!! Is say a course in programming is as or more helpful than the math and physics. It sounds like you'll have a great transcript.

[microbecode01]

^

Thank you very much for the encouragement and advice! I thought that replacing the standard "introductory" physics requirement with the quantum mechanics and thermodynamics & statistics will benefit me better since I am very interested in those courses and I think it is better to learn the specific fields of science but with greater focus (depth) than the buffet-style introductory course. I am actually planning to take several programming courses too starting on the next semester; my current biostatistics course is based on the R program so I am thinking about taking the introductory course in R programming along with MatLab on the next semester. Latte Macchiato, which programs (R, MatLab, C++, Java, etc.) do you recommend to be as a biologist?

[microbecode01]

Just one more question; is it necessary to take the separate courses in linear algebra, differential equations, and multi-variable calculus when there is a course that includes them all? My current Mathematical Biology I includes the all of those math disciplines and other math topics too (Fourier analysis, etc.), but I was wondering if I need to take the separate courses on them. I did not take those mathematical course yet, but my professor told me that she will teach the necessary and the course does not include extensive covering of those courses (more on applied side).

[Applemiu]

Just one more question; is it necessary to take the separate courses in linear algebra, differential equations, and multi-variable calculus when there is a course that includes them all? My current Mathematical Biology I includes the all of those math disciplines and other math topics too (Fourier analysis, etc.), but I was wondering if I need to take the separate courses on them. I did not take those mathematical course yet, but my professor told me that she will teach the necessary and the course does not include extensive covering of those courses (more on applied side).

 

Make sure the "combo" course is going to be comprehensive of everything you need. I took one of those courses once and I came to regret it, and wished I had taken the separate courses instead. But if the professor is good, the reviews are good etc. go for it. Try to talk to other students that took it to be sure.

[Crucial BBQ]

Thank you very much for of those helpful advices! I made up my mind and decided to just major in the microbiology and take other necessary mathematics and statistics courses. I actually enrolled the course called Mathematical Biology - Molecular Mechanics on today, which will be follow by Mathematical Biology - Systems Biology on next semester. Just curious, do graduate schools give plus points to the applicants with double majors or major and minor? Do most applicants just major in one area?

Please let me interrupt you one more time. I had talked with my microbiology advisors about the physics requirement. Although my school requires the introductory physics sequence with the lab, I changed the requirement to the 1 semester of quantum mechanics and 1 semester of thermodynamics & statistical mechanics. I think those physical areas are more helpful than other physical fields in my research, particularly the thermodynamics and statistical mechanics. Do graduate schools allow students to have this kind of modification or insist only the introductory physics sequence (except for physics programs)?

Based on this and your other posts, it seems highly likely that you are simply trying to impress the graduate school adcoms, increase your chances of admissions.  As someone who attempted to do/did the same thing, let me give you some advice:

 

-If the graduate school programs you are considering require one year of introductory physics with labs, then they require one year of introductory physics with labs.  Unless you have AP credit, IB? credit, CLEP, or have tested out of introductory physics by some other manner, the adcoms are going to wonder why you did not take the intro courses.  On the one hand quantum mechanics does fit into the idea of mathematical biology, but on the other the adcoms are going to wonder how you were able to grasp the concepts in quantum mechanics and thermodynamics without first having the introductory background of a typical first-year physics sequence. There is a saying, sort of, in the U.S. that goes:  generalize in undergrad, specialize in grad. 

 

 

Two of the programs that rejected me last year mentioned my "low" grades in introductory chemistry as a part of the reason.  My "B" in a 400-level chemistry course in thermodynamics, taken as a biology major, did not impress them.  They specifically wanted the broader range of knowledge gained from the survey courses. 

 

If you absolutely must do this, or think I am full of it (I understand that my experiences may be unique to my own situation and/or programs I applied to),  you will be doing yourself a huge favor by explaining in your SOP why you took this route as long as your explanation is logical. It's a double-edged sword: adcoms might feel as though you were jumping the gun a bit too much. It might also help if you use your advisor for an LOR.   

 

 

 

^

Thank you very much for the encouragement and advice! I thought that replacing the standard "introductory" physics requirement with the quantum mechanics and thermodynamics & statistics will benefit me better since I am very interested in those courses and I think it is better to learn the specific fields of science but with greater focus (depth) than the buffet-style introductory course. I am actually planning to take several programming courses too starting on the next semester; my current biostatistics course is based on the R program so I am thinking about taking the introductory course in R programming along with MatLab on the next semester. Latte Macchiato, which programs (R, MatLab, C++, Java, etc.) do you recommend to be as a biologist?

I am not sure where you are from or where you are currently going to school, but in the U.S. "higher education" has not changed much over the last 200 years or so.  Undergraduate is preparation for grad school and typically an undergraduate education in the U.S. has more of a broad focus than a narrow focus.  Narrowing your focus too much may impress some, or it may inhibit your chances of admissions. 

 

Just one more question; is it necessary to take the separate courses in linear algebra, differential equations, and multi-variable calculus when there is a course that includes them all? My current Mathematical Biology I includes the all of those math disciplines and other math topics too (Fourier analysis, etc.), but I was wondering if I need to take the separate courses on them. I did not take those mathematical course yet, but my professor told me that she will teach the necessary and the course does not include extensive covering of those courses (more on applied side).

Yes, take the separate courses if you plan on applying to graduate programs within the U.S.  

Edited September 14, 2014 by Crucial BBQ

[bsharpe269]

Based on this and your other posts, it seems highly likely that you are simply trying to impress the graduate school adcoms, increase your chances of admissions.  As someone who attempted to do/did the same thing, let me give you some advice:

 

If the graduate school programs you are considering require one year of introductory physics with labs, then they require one year of introductory physics with labs.  Unless you have AP credit, IB? credit, CLEP, or have tested out of introductory physics by some other manner, the adcoms are going to wonder why you did not take the intro courses.  On the one hand quantum mechanics does fit into the idea of mathematical biology, but on the other the adcoms are going to wonder how you were able to grasp the concepts in quantum mechanics and thermodynamics without first having the introductory background of a typical first-year physics sequence. There is a saying, sort of, in the U.S. that goes:  generalize in undergrad, specialize in grad. 

 

I understand your point that you should get more of a general education in undergrad and I do agree with you to an extent. However, if the student were to mention in the SOP that they taught themself this material over the summer then I think their ability to do this and still excel in the upper level classes would be impressive. I certainly dont think it would be cause for concern. Since being able to teach oneself information in grad school is so important, I think that proof on your transcript that you can do this would be helpful.

 

That being said, I dont think you would have an advantage in admission over someone who did not take quantum. Honestly, class work is such a small part of the application so if you were to do less research to take more difficult classes then if would put you at a disadvatage. I think you should focus on reserach and reading papers in your field and take classes to suppliment that.

[microbecode01]

Thank you very much for all of your insightful suggestions and advice! The reason I want to take the thermodynamics and quantum mechanics and replace them with the introductory physics sequence is that they will greatly help me on my research. I have been doing both "wet" research in the virology and "quantitative analysis" in the molecular modeling + bioinformatics. On my senior year, I will be taking the classical mechanics course, and I think it is more beneficial for me to take the advanced introductory courses in physicical disciplines than general physics since those advanced courses like mechanics and thermodynamics are very detailed and comprehensive. When I will be writing the SOP, I will remind myself to try connecting the varieities of courses I took and my research, and also try to explain how taking those advanced courses helped me to do productive research and insightful thinking.