What schools are right for me?

[Needle in the Hay]

Hi all,

 

I'm wondering if you can suggest PhD programs for me to apply to given my interests. My main interests are in Aristotelian and Thomist (St. Thomas Aquinas) Meta- ethics and Philosophy of Action. As such I'm very interested in the more recent attempts to revive these lines of thought by Anscombe and Geach and also by more contemporary people influenced by Anscombe and Geach like Foot and Thompson. I'm also more broadly interested in Aristotle and Aquinas' thought in general, so if you can think of any places that are particularly great for either of those philosophers that would also be helpful. Lastly, recommendations for places that are just generally very strong for Philosophy of Action and/ or Meta- Ethics are also welcome.

 

Here are the places I'm already considering applying to-

USA-

U Chicago, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Berkeley, Stanford, Colorado, UNC- CH, 

 

UK,

St. Andrew's, Oxford, Cambridge, Univ Coll London, King's, Birkbeck, 

 

If you can think of any schools in addition to these that seem like they would be a good fit for me that would be much appreciated. Here is the caveat- my grades are not that good. Undergrad GPA around 3.27 from UNC- CH and I don't know my dissertation score from my MA at Univ College London yet, though I know that the first term was very strong and the second term not so strong. A lot will be riding on the writing sample and the letters of recommendation, both of which I think will be strong. But still, it is probably a good idea for me to have several "safety schools". So if you can think of anything in that category that will also be helpful.

 

Many thanks!

[dgswaim]

Have you thought about Saint Louis University? It isn't a "ranked" program in the overall standings, but very well respected for the kinds of things you seem to be interested in (action theory, Thomism, etc.). Eleonore Stump seems like she'd be a great person under which to write a dissertation, given your interests.

[Needle in the Hay]

oh right, I've read part of Eleanore Stump's book on Aquinas and I found it very helpful. I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the tip!

[jjb919]

Fordham is really strong in ancient and medieval philosophy, has a good number of Notre Dame trained philosophers, and compared to most of the other schools on your list would be more of a "safety school." Also, Cornell is really strong in ancient philosophy from what I know.

 

As for meta-ethics and philosophy of action, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor is one of the strongest. UC Riverside and USC come to mind as well. Georgetown is known more for its strength in applied ethics, but has some strength in meta-ethics as well I suppose.

[NathanKellen]

Do you have an MA? I am told that most UK schools won't accept students without a previous MA (this is true for at least St Andrews).

[Needle in the Hay]

Yes, I do have an MA from Univ College London. You've given me another reason to be happy about that! Thanks for your concern. 

 

Thanks jjb for recommendations! Jozef Muller at UC Riverside ( http://philosophy.ucr.edu/jozef-muller/ ) looks like a good potential supervisor for me. Will consider the other two schools as well!

[NathanKellen]

You might also consider Baylor. I have a friend who mentioned it, and it might have been on similar grounds as your motivations.

[Needle in the Hay]

Thanks, I'll look into that! Ideally, however, and I suppose this applies to the Fordham recommendation as well, I would really like to go somewhere that is at least in the top 50 somewhere. So if anyone has more recommendations for anything in that range that will also be appreciated. When I said "safety" I more had in mind places roughly in the #29- 50 range.

[primenumbers]

Please don't take this as offensive, but I don't think there are any safety schools in the top 50 for anyone.  I was lucky enough to get a top 10 and top 15 acceptance, but I also was rejected at numerous lower ranked programs.  The acceptance pool per school is so small that a lot of arbitrary decisions have to be made by admissions committees.  It is a high-variance process, and so not predictable.  If you want "safety schools", you'll have to go down the rankings a bit more.  This is true for everyone, regardless of how good an applicant they are, but even more so if you believe you have a few less-than-ideal application components.

[MorganFreemanlives]

Please don't take this as offensive, but I don't think there are any safety schools in the top 50 for anyone.  I was lucky enough to get a top 10 and top 15 acceptance, but I also was rejected at numerous lower ranked programs.  The acceptance pool per school is so small that a lot of arbitrary decisions have to be made by admissions committees.  It is a high-variance process, and so not predictable.  If you want "safety schools", you'll have to go down the rankings a bit more.  This is true for everyone, regardless of how good an applicant they are, but even more so if you believe you have a few less-than-ideal application components.

while im not sure to what degree i agree with this thesis, i will say that the variance of acceptance is very surprising. compare oxford's b.phil program which in the past  despite being a masters has alone like in the case of Mcginn  been sufficient for a tenured academic career , with cornell university. ranking wise  a school ranked 2 in gourmet vs ranked 14th

 

oxford's b.phil has on average 27 spots and 196 applicants

cornell's ph.d program has 6 spots for 300 applicants, very competitive even for T20

 

while this is clearly one of many comparisons, this is one of those specific cases where the numbers are very surprising

[rlg]

Hi all,

 

I'm wondering if you can suggest PhD programs for me to apply to given my interests. My main interests are in Aristotelian and Thomist (St. Thomas Aquinas) Meta- ethics and Philosophy of Action. As such I'm very interested in the more recent attempts to revive these lines of thought by Anscombe and Geach and also by more contemporary people influenced by Anscombe and Geach like Foot and Thompson. I'm also more broadly interested in Aristotle and Aquinas' thought in general, so if you can think of any places that are particularly great for either of those philosophers that would also be helpful. Lastly, recommendations for places that are just generally very strong for Philosophy of Action and/ or Meta- Ethics are also welcome.

 

Here are the places I'm already considering applying to-

USA-

U Chicago, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Berkeley, Stanford, Colorado, UNC- CH, 

 

UK,

St. Andrew's, Oxford, Cambridge, Univ Coll London, King's, Birkbeck, 

 

If you can think of any schools in addition to these that seem like they would be a good fit for me that would be much appreciated. Here is the caveat- my grades are not that good. Undergrad GPA around 3.27 from UNC- CH and I don't know my dissertation score from my MA at Univ College London yet, though I know that the first term was very strong and the second term not so strong. A lot will be riding on the writing sample and the letters of recommendation, both of which I think will be strong. But still, it is probably a good idea for me to have several "safety schools". So if you can think of anything in that category that will also be helpful.

 

Many thanks!

Cornell seems like a good fit for you in terms of interest. Scott MacDonald is really sharp on Aquinas and knows his medievals (esp. Boethius and Augustine) really well. 

 

Aside from that, if you're interested in metaethics, Cornell is a good place to be. Richard Boyd is at the forefront of one school of metaethicists (though perhaps not the one you're interested in, if you're a Thomist!). And they've recently hired Julia Markovits as an Associate Professor. Obviously she won't be advising your dissertation (and who knows how long she'll be at Cornell), but she's a superb philosopher, her book Moral Reason is a great text (she studied with Parfit, etc. etc.).

[Monadology]

Thanks, I'll look into that! Ideally, however, and I suppose this applies to the Fordham recommendation as well, I would really like to go somewhere that is at least in the top 50 somewhere. So if anyone has more recommendations for anything in that range that will also be appreciated. When I said "safety" I more had in mind places roughly in the #29- 50 range.

 

Fordham actually has a decent placement record. If that's what you're worried about with respect to rank, you might want to look at http://www.newappsblog.com/2014/07/job-placement-2011-2014-comparing-placement-rank-to-pgr-rank.html. The data they are working with there is limited and sometimes incomplete, but it gives reason to doubt that all unranked programs are necessarily bad choices. 

 

It's also not a safety school, I do not get the impression that it is easy to get into. 

Edited September 21, 2014 by Monadology

[Needle in the Hay]

what a helpful link that is, Monadology! I will be referring to it as I go forward. Even if, as you say, the data is incomplete, it should at least be helpful to the extent that it flags that certain schools that I may have discounted are worthy of further research: placement records, after all, are located on most schools' websites. One worry to flag about the list is that it does not show where students have gone on to get jobs. It might be that students who attend certain schools (perhaps lesser ranked or unranked schools) are more likely than students who attend other (better ranked or simply ranked) schools to accept teaching positions at four- year schools without PhD programs, for instance. In any case, the "placement" sections on the programs' webpages should be helpful in this respect.

 

As per primenumbers remarks to the effect that there aren't safety schools in the top 50- in a sense that seems right. Maybe if I had been more precise I would have said "relative- safety" schools- surely it is not as hard to get accepted to Boston University as it is to get accepted to Harvard. It is true that there is high- variance, as you say, but it is of course not all chance. 

 

 HegelOuroboros- that is helpful data and it is making me think that maybe applying to Oxford is not such a bad idea despite its intimidating ranking!

 

Rig- Cornell seems like it would be an excellent fit for the reasons you mention and especially because of MacDonald who would really make the ideal supervisor for me. But those acceptance rates!!! O______________O

 

At any rate, if I suggested before that I will not be considering non- top- 50 schools I should not have. Especially in light of re- considering their placement potential, Baylor, Fordham, and St. Louis actually seem like they might be wise choices for me. And they are in any case great fits for me given my interests. Thanks again for those recommendations; I will be considering them seriously.

 

To whom it may concern, here are some more places I've found at this point that look good for me given the interests I listed in my original post-

UC Irvine (Bencivenga, Perin, Kent!), U of Wisconsin- Madison (Paul, Schafer- Landau, Gottlieb), U of Minnesota, Minneapolis St. Paul (Peterson, Tiberius, Mason), CUNY (Jacobs, Vasiliou, Baumrin, Ross) 

 

Thank you to all respondents! Everything has been helpful.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Theoldpond0

[overoverover]

what a helpful link that is, Monadology! I will be referring to it as I go forward. Even if, as you say, the data is incomplete, it should at least be helpful to the extent that it flags that certain schools that I may have discounted are worthy of further research: placement records, after all, are located on most schools' websites. One worry to flag about the list is that it does not show where students have gone on to get jobs. It might be that students who attend certain schools (perhaps lesser ranked or unranked schools) are more likely than students who attend other (better ranked or simply ranked) schools to accept teaching positions at four- year schools without PhD programs, for instance. In any case, the "placement" sections on the programs' webpages should be helpful in this respect.

 

As per primenumbers remarks to the effect that there aren't safety schools in the top 50- in a sense that seems right. Maybe if I had been more precise I would have said "relative- safety" schools- surely it is not as hard to get accepted to Boston University as it is to get accepted to Harvard. It is true that there is high- variance, as you say, but it is of course not all chance. 

 

 HegelOuroboros- that is helpful data and it is making me think that maybe applying to Oxford is not such a bad idea despite its intimidating ranking!

 

Rig- Cornell seems like it would be an excellent fit for the reasons you mention and especially because of MacDonald who would really make the ideal supervisor for me. But those acceptance rates!!! O______________O

 

At any rate, if I suggested before that I will not be considering non- top- 50 schools I should not have. Especially in light of re- considering their placement potential, Baylor, Fordham, and St. Louis actually seem like they might be wise choices for me. And they are in any case great fits for me given my interests. Thanks again for those recommendations; I will be considering them seriously.

 

To whom it may concern, here are some more places I've found at this point that look good for me given the interests I listed in my original post-

UC Irvine (Bencivenga, Perin, Kent!), U of Wisconsin- Madison (Paul, Schafer- Landau, Gottlieb), U of Minnesota, Minneapolis St. Paul (Peterson, Tiberius, Mason), CUNY (Jacobs, Vasiliou, Baumrin, Ross) 

 

Thank you to all respondents! Everything has been helpful.

Even with your qualification of "relative safety", it still seems a stretch to call any top 50 department a safety school. When I got in to my PhD program (near the bottom of the top 50), there was an admissions rate of about 5%. 

[The Pedanticist]

There really are only a couple of safety schools out there.  Heck, I only know of a couple of places that have acceptance rates above 50% and even those places are super specialized in certain areas.  The other problem that goes unmentioned with "safety" schools is that many of them provide less funding.  

[Needle in the Hay]

Thanks, Pedanticist and overoverover. I understand that all of the top 50 programs are very difficult to get into. I will change my phrasing one more time- instead of "relative- safety- schools", perhaps I should say, "schools that I might have at least a slightly better chance at getting accepted to". Hopefully it is clear why I would want to apply to some schools of that description that are nonetheless within the top 50.  

Edited September 22, 2014 by Theoldpond0

[primenumbers]

Of course, that makes sense.  I only brought it up because when I applied, I did not fully understand how competitive it really was.

[philstudent1991]

You might want to do extra research on Colorado. They had some serious climate problems last year, and even suspended graduate admissions, just in case you didn't know. And ya there are no safety schools in philosophy. For meta-ethics, Michigan and Princeton have very strong faculties, but they are crazy competitive. For action, if you mean free will, look into Florida State. Not as competitive as Michigan or Princeton to be sure, but still the premier place to be to work on free will.

[Needle in the Hay]

Oh right, FSU looks like it would be a good place to work on action theory. I think the others might be beyond my reach, unfortunately, but good to know about anyway. Will look into the situation at Colorado. Thanks!

At this point I have conceded the point about safety schools! lol. See my last post. 

[MorganFreemanlives]

even at top schools like harvard the days were you graduate and you get a  tenure track position  in top 30 or even top 50 are long gone. now you must go to a top school to even have a possibility to have a position at a respectable place as a 1st placement.

 

too many philosophers, most which are not doing top notch work clogging the market, and things arent getting any better. i suggest we all get tenure ASAP before `1. tenure is abolished or 2. the robots take over. its frightening to think that we may be the last generation to actually be professors in the sense the word as been used in the last millennia.

[The Pedanticist]

Thanks, Pedanticist and overoverover. I understand that all of the top 50 programs are very difficult to get into. I will change my phrasing one more time- instead of "relative- safety- schools", perhaps I should say, "schools that I might have at least a slightly better chance at getting accepted to". Hopefully it is clear why I would want to apply to some schools of that description that are nonetheless within the top 50.  

 

This may not even matter with the PGR on the ropes these days.  But I do completely understand its part of the reason I'm applying to programs outside of philosophy proper (with at least seemingly a great deal of success).

Edited October 10, 2014 by The Pedanticist