PhD programs beyond the Top Ten—worth it?

[everran]

Hello friends,

 

I have begun applying to Art History PhD programs well beyond the first ten, as given here: http://arthistorynewsletter.com/blog/?p=5204. I am sorely worried about hiring potential.

 

I read somewhere on GC, If you're not admitted to a Top Ten program, don't go!

 

Complicating things, it's possible for me to do an MFA in Creative Writing (I'm a poet).   Does anyone have a hunch which degree would fare better on the job market? If I took this route, I suspect my chances of being admitted to a more prestigious school are higher....

 

Thanks for your opinions!

[anonymousbequest]

There was just a post on one of the major art history listservs on this topic. A recent PhD did a survey of faculty at schools with open job searches this year and of recent winners of CASVA fellowships. He found that about 90% of these people ether went to Ivies or schools in the UC system. The remaining 10% were typically from Stanford, Chicago, Hopkins, etc...

 

I think there was a big discussion of this on GC as well that you could search. 

 

I'm not saying that the NRC rankings are terribly meaningful, some schools far beyond the top ten there are great, and other schools have specialties or stellar faculty that make them hit above their weight class. Also, in this day and age just having an Ivy or UC PhD is no guarantee that you won't end up as an adjunct. The point is you should look carefully into the placement rates of any program you apply to, as well as talk to current and former graduate students about department culture, mentorship, and forms of support beyond the monetary.  

 

I'm assuming that you would do the MFA first? If so, you could probably find work as an adjunct in a writing program that you might be able to fall back on if your PhD funding was not sufficient or you could not find a TT job later. You'd at least have the option to be an adjunct in two different disciplines, so you might even make enough to live on.

[m-ttl]

 

I am sorely worried about hiring potential.

 

I read somewhere on GC, If you're not admitted to a Top Ten program, don't go!

 

Complicating things, it's possible for me to do an MFA in Creative Writing (I'm a poet).   Does anyone have a hunch which degree would fare better on the job market? If I took this route, I suspect my chances of being admitted to a more prestigious school are higher....

 

Thanks for your opinions!

 

Hold up. To clarify: You believe you could get into a more prestigious school for the MFA in creative writing than say, a PhD in art history, am I correct? 

 

I think what needs to be said here, is that some people will always believe you have to be in a top ten. I think this is maybe true for fields like Philosophy, but not necessarily true everywhere, especially here. Keeping in mind that for many people in the field it's who and what you know. If your subfield is over-saturated, it's just going to plain be a problem no matter what. If you're not in the top ten BUT you know well connected people or are studying under an established and well known scholar...well then, you're talking about something different. Getting hired isn't a process that happens in a vacuum. If people hiring already know you through your advisor/committee/experience in the field/conferences/etc, it's again, going to be different than going up against the candidate who is less familiar but has a great institution name.

 

What the name of an institution really matters is less that it's an Ivy at this point, and more that the school has a reputation for something you want to be known for, or similarly, your advisor has a reputation, etc. Going to Podunk #46 State school for your PhD isn't necessarily bad if you're studying say, Ancient Egyptian Art and they're really well known for it, and have an abundance of facilities and research in the area. Going to Northwestern for Art History is impressive, but not exactly helpful if you're hoping to study Pre-columbian Art. 

 

So like you've surmised, the ranks don't exactly match to the internal ranking system people do in real life. What's more important is the connection of your school or advisor/committee to have recognition for what you are studying in your sub-field. If you go to Podunk, you want people to go "OH, they have an AMAZING scholar/focus on [thing you study]."

 

I have no idea how well writing poetry would serve you in the job market in general, but they are obviously completely different degrees. If you want to be in Art History -- seriously and completely -- then apply to funded MA's, and then you'll have a much better chance at getting into whatever top notch PhD you really want if you are an excellent scholar, etc. To me, they're different fields, with different requirements and goals. I know some people with creative writing MFAs who work in museums, but they're A.) not in poetry and B.) not curatorial or academic. What do you want from your degree?

 

Do you need a degree to be a poet? In art history, a degree is required to work or teach in the field, almost universally. Of course, no degree is required to appreciate art, or even to volunteer in places with amazing works of art.

 

 What do you want to be hired for, what do you want to do, and then work from that. I see no reason to do a degree in Art History if you'd rather be teaching Poetry, or have an MFA in Poetry if you really want to be an Art History professor. If the money is of no question, then do whatever makes you most happy -- neither are guaranteed to give you a job anyways. 

[Ajtz'ihb]

I'm an archaeologist lurking over here, but I heartily agree with m-ttl above.