Harvard or MIT? Pros and cons.

[futurechemist]

Hello everyone,

 

I am lucky enough to be admitted to Harvard and MIT chemistry program. Now I am thinking about which program I am going to join. My research interests lie in materials science and inorganic chemistry. Yes, I will visit them both in March, but I feel that I should get some ideas before that.

 

My question is mainly about:

 

What's the reputation of Harvard and MIT in your eyes? (I am an international student, so I do not have any ideas of the characteristics of these two programs besides the fact that both of them are top programs.)

 

What do you see as pros and cons of the program? 

(I am willing to go to academia as my career, so do you have any ideas of the academic atmosphere of these two programs?)

 

Please feel free to talk about your opinions. It would be great if we can have current Harvard and MIT grad students on this topic as well.

 

[Deltagrey]

Well both programs are world class, so we're splitting hairs differentiating them. Their reputation in my eyes is the same as it is for most people: they're both name-brand universities that "geniuses" are typically found at. Both are fantastic for inorganic and materials chemistry. MIT is considered the top inorganic program in the world, with nobel laureates like Richard Schrock (a fellow UCR alum). But Harvard is just as good, especially with Nocera working there now. So the pros are mainly the program strengths, and their reputations will probably make it easier to get into academia since pedigree unfortunately matters a lot.

The main cons that come to mind: cost and location. Boston is expensive, and it can be difficult to find housing close to campus on a graduate student salary. The T is also the worst subway system I've ever used and the city can be a nightmare to drive around in. So, commuting can also be difficult. As a masshole (born and raised), I can also tell you that it is brutally cold and miserable in the winter. So depending on your preference for geography, you might prefer something warmer. 

[Crucial BBQ]

I did undergrad in Boston, but not at Harvard or MIT (also because they are in Cambridge   )

 

Here is what I know:  they are considered "brother" schools.  Students at MIT can and do take courses at Harvard and Harvard students the same at MIT.  

 

Harvard is a heckofalot more rigorous than some may believe, but not as tough as MIT.

 

MITs entire academic model is based around training students to think like engineers, regardless of major.  Harvard, not so much.

 

MIT has the highest rate of student suicides amongst U.S. universities.  Harvard has the second (according to the Boston Globe). 

 

At MIT, they say IHTFP (I Hate This Fudging Place).  I don't think Harvard has an equivalent. 

 

Both will open doors for careers in academia.  Harvard has the edge, however, as the Ivies are more known for producing teachers and professors.  MIT is better for industry and entrepreneurship.  

 

Everyone knows that Boston gets cold in the winter.  What I do not think people realize is that Boston/Cambridge gets an insane amount of snow.  

 

*to add*  Wellesley College is the "sister" school to MIT.  

Edited January 29, 2015 by Crucial BBQ

[ghostar]

Does Harvard have any inorganic/materials chemists besides Dan Nocera? I might be ignorant here, but I haven't seen Harvard being touted for its inorganic & materials division. Much less when compared to MIT for sure.

 

Also, I have heard some really, grossly, nasty stories of departmental infighting at Harvard. Word from several grad students there is that all Harvard PI's essentially hate each other and compete for lab space and resources, and the stress ultimately trickles down to their grad students. Granted, these stories were told primarily by the organic chemists in the top labs, so take it with a grain of salt, but this is something that I would ask about during visits.   

 

(I am willing to go to academia as my career, so do you have any ideas of the academic atmosphere of these two programs?)

 

I'm not sure what you are asking here. What do you mean by the "academic atmosphere?" Whatever it is, how is it relevant to your willingness(??) to go into academia? Based on your wording, it sounds like an academic position is not exactly what you want but something that you would be okay with.

Edited January 29, 2015 by ghostar

[fancyfeast]

I think Harvard is good for materials - their Wyss institute is, according to some, the doing the best biomaterials research in the nation. If I had taken the chem GRE I totally would have applied.

I heard MIT is pretty intense. I just have one persons account but he said that he felt the department thought it was okay everyone was suffering, and that getting a PhD should be full of suffering, and that a lot of stress was a good indicator that you were working hard enough. I have also heard MIT is better for engineering, whereas Harvard might be better for physical sciences.

[ghostar]

I think Harvard is good for materials - their Wyss institute is, according to some, the doing the best biomaterials research in the nation. If I had taken the chem GRE I totally would have applied.

I heard MIT is pretty intense. I just have one persons account but he said that he felt the department thought it was okay everyone was suffering, and that getting a PhD should be full of suffering, and that a lot of stress was a good indicator that you were working hard enough. I have also heard MIT is better for engineering, whereas Harvard might be better for physical sciences.

 

Wyss Institute is heavily biology-oriented, the OP is interested in inorganic & materials.

[fancyfeast]

Wyss Institute is heavily biology-oriented, the OP is interested in inorganic & materials.

I did specify it was biologically-related materials, but I didn't know OP was interested in inorganic "and" materials. Interpreted as inorganic "or" materials. Oops.

Sorry, OP! My n=1 MIT comment may still be of use to you.

[Deltagrey]

 

Also, I have heard some really, grossly, nasty stories of departmental infighting at Harvard. Word from several grad students there is that all Harvard PI's essentially hate each other and compete for lab space and resources, and the stress ultimately trickles down to their grad students. Granted, these stories were told primarily by the organic chemists in the top labs, so take it with a grain of salt, but this is something that I would ask about during visits.   

 

 

I second this. Talking with some of the professors at my university, they've told me that politics can be a huge issue, especially at a lot of the top ranked east coast schools. I don't know how much truth there is to it, but it is something to be mindful of. Grad students can be caught between the fighting and it's not unheard of for spiteful professors to try and fail their colleagues' grad students. 

[HAF9113]

I second this. Talking with some of the professors at my university, they've told me that politics can be a huge issue, especially at a lot of the top ranked east coast schools. I don't know how much truth there is to it, but it is something to be mindful of. Grad students can be caught between the fighting and it's not unheard of for spiteful professors to try and fail their colleagues' grad students.

What about cornell? dose it have those nasty stuffs?

Sorry this thread is porb not the right one to ask this question…

Edited January 29, 2015 by HAF9113

[closetchem]

My current PI did both his undergrad and Ph.D at Cornell, then a post-doc at Harvard. He talks very highly of Cornell and told me that if I value my happiness and academic freedom to stay away from Harvard/MIT. That is just his account of his experiences, and he is a physical chemists/biophysics which is a different field from the OP and my PI hasn't been there for many years. 

[Hijojo]

I visited MIT when I was first starting to consider graduate school and I felt the same thing that people above were saying - the students in the lab really didn't seem to enjoy being there and it didn't feel like an environment I'd like to do graduate work in. Of course, that was only be interacting with a single lab, but I think it's a good thing to watch for. Some of this may be endemic to top schools, I suspect. While it's not generalizable to all of MIT or Harvard, I think the point is to carefully look at what the department's environment is like, since they're both top programs.

[ghostar]

Speaking of Harvard & MIT, check out these articles (and comments) discussing Dan Nocera's move from MIT to Harvard.

http://blog.chembark.com/2012/02/22/nocera-to-harvard/

http://chemjobber.blogspot.com/2012/03/mit-alleges-harvard-recruiting.html?m=1

[Deltagrey]

Speaking of Harvard & MIT, check out these articles (and comments) discussing Dan Nocera's move from MIT to Harvard.

http://blog.chembark.com/2012/02/22/nocera-to-harvard/

http://chemjobber.blogspot.com/2012/03/mit-alleges-harvard-recruiting.html?m=1

I had no idea how much effort universities put into recruiting professors to work for them. The Stanford recruitment was the most outlandish.

[SunnygirlDiana]

I had no idea how much effort universities put into recruiting professors to work for them. The Stanford recruitment was the most outlandish.

Lol i cant tell if the whole second article is a joke or what parts are serious? At the bottom(end of the article) in really small print, it says, "note to the overly literal, this is satire."

Either way, i got a good laugh out of it!!! Hahaha i kinda wish those stories were true! Maybe so because i'm not sure which parts were satire but definitely the bit about MC White haha

[Maxtini]

That's very normal~ You haven't seen how Saudi Arabian KAUST luring top notch professor's from all over the world

[Usmivka]

Jumping in really late here, but I agree that your fit in a specific lab should be the highest consideration. In either case you will have some sane, likeable grad students in your peer group to help you stay grounded. Much of the reputation surrounding either department is derived form the undergrad experience, which isn't terribly applicable to you. If you are concerned about fitting in and staying happy, MIT has one of the largest fractions of international grad students in the country (42%, http://web.mit.edu/iso/stats_14-15/general.shtml) and a lot of financial, social, support, and health resources for international students compared to the other places I have experience. I think Harvard has similar resources for international students.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Usmivka

[fancyfeast]

Not exactly related but for the people going to MITs weekend - did you get an email when you RSVP'd? I think I'm losing my mind because I vaguely remember RSVP-ing in January but I don't have any record of that and haven't heard from them since.