Rejected..Now what?

[MyDogHasAPhD]

It seems as if I have been rejected from all but one of my schools, officially. This was my first attempt at getting into a PhD program, and I have learned so much about what to do in this process and what NOT to do. First off, I should have definitely applied for more than 6 programs, but money is not always easy to come by so that's just the unfortunate reality of the situation. 

 

I did make it to final interview rounds for one of my programs and was lucky enough to get some really honest feedback as to why I did not get accepted. My verbal and analytical GRE scores were great, my quantitative was not so much. It was under the 50th percentile. This particularly POI did tell me that it made it really difficult for her to secure funding for me with a quant score less than 50% and that ultimately, that was why I was rejected from their program. Obviously, retaking my GRE and beefing up that score is going to be crucial if I do apply again next year.

 

So now I find myself at a bit of a cross-roads. I have two solid years of research, no publications, one conference. My research experience is all independent studies and honor's thesis work, so it was basically me doing everything from full scale literature research, recruitment, and analyses. I had one professor tell me that going to get my Master's in experimental psych (I want to go to either community or social programs--eventually want to do prevention and intervention program research/development) would at least show that I can do coursework, including stats, at a graduate level which could make up for my lackluster quant score. Then I had two other professors tell me that I should work in a lab for a year while I keep trying to raise my quant score and that going to get my Master's should be my last case scenario. 

 

My GPA is a 3.91, so not much to worry about in that department. I suppose going to a Master's program might give me more opportunities for research and publications but I also don't want to go deeper into debt that I already am in student loans. 

 

So my question for anyone with input is: Does it make a whole lot of sense for me to go to get my Master's at this point or would I fare better trying to get my GRE up and try to get in with a lab and apply again next season? 

 

Thanks everyone!

[Vene]

I'm from outside your field (saw this under newest threads) so take my advice with a healthy dose of skepticism, but I don't think a masters is the way to go. If you can get a funded program, that's one thing, but is it really worth paying when it sounds like you application only has the one flaw? Study your math so you can retake the quant and try again next year. Working in a lab for a year would be great (and doing full time work in your field will give you a different perspective than doing it as a student). Otherwise, try and get a job that is at least halfway related to your field to pay bills as you prepare your application next year.

[jnah]

I don't have an answer for you, but I can lend you my solidarity-in-sorrow. Our situations actually share many details: high GPA (4.0 here), two years of research, no pubs, but a couple conference presentations, great verbal and analytical GRE scores... but lower than the 50th percentile on the quantitative section (I don't have any doubt that this has been a serious detriment to my chances). Oh, and I applied to a similar number of Social psychology programs: 5 for me. Where our situations differ is that I'm not really in an area where "getting in with a lab" of any kind of notability or productivity is possible. I have a huge amount of anxiety of what I'm going to do if I get rejected everywhere.

 

I haven't been officially rejected from anywhere yet, but I know that one is a bust (Oregon) because I didn't receive an interview, and I'm pretty sure another is about to be a bust (British Columbia) because I haven't received an interview, and I'm told that most of the invites have gone out. I don't know if my other three programs interview, but I haven't heard a peep from any of them or my POIs.

 

And, like you, I don't have any idea what to do. I've flirted with the idea of a Master's in experimental psych—in fact, I just submitted an application for one program because I've started to really fear a total shut-out—but I just don't know how wise that decision would be. I've heard conflicting advice. So I'll be watching this thread with interest.

[Journey2015]

Interestingly, we have similar profiles :-). This is technically my third round of applications. My first year I applied to one program: my undergraduate institution. I was not accepted. I was, however, accepted into a masters program that I discovered quite late in the game. Turned out to be a blessing in disguise. It was a more intimate program with great faculty and I'm so happy for the experience. 

 

Like you, my quantitative score left much to be desired. Last year I applied to two programs, including my second attempt at my undergrad institution. I was actually told then that it was my quant score that did not allow for me to go to the next round of consideration (that program/school is highly competitive). 

 

So, this is now my third round of apps. The difference: I have since earned a masters. What I'm learning now is that although it is possible to go straight from undergrad to a PhD program, most adcoms are more inclined to recruit students with a masters. You've proven that you can handle the academic rigor of grad school. You've have advance training in your field, including an internship, most likely; and you've most likely completed a thesis with a quantitative component. 

 

I thought about retaking my GRE, but timing and finances never really synched. If its not too late, I really suggest considering applying to masters programs for the fall. You can still apply to a PhD program toward your completion date and never skip a beat. And who knows, your research interests may change. Either way, trust that things work out the way they are supposed to. I was really bummed last year when I didn't get into a program. Today, however, it seems as if things are really falling into place. I don't know what the next few weeks hold, and I'm quite anxious of the unknown. But I feel so much more "prepared" for whatever the next phase is. 

 

#mytwocents

[SallyHam]

I think it's better to get a job/work in a lab that is prestigious, if not prestigious, then very productive or with exciting ideas, and try and do some really great work there!  Or work in multiple labs. It's also possible to just randomly contact faculty in schools and just ask them for jobs.  I think many people don't try out for the Lab Manager or try to ask for jobs at farther away institutions because they are afraid of moving and it being expensive, but I got one of those and it was manageable, so I'd try out for them. It might not be as bad as you think!

 

Also I wrote this in the social psych thread, but try looking at different departments like at the med school of an institution, or political science, business schools--there are definitely people who have similar interests. I was surprised to find that there are social psych people everywhere! Even one of my old advisers, who was in the marketing department, actually studies evolutionary psych and doesn't look like he would study health decisions, still studies diseases and health interventions. You just have to look! (Again, easier if you are open to moving!) 

 

Also, I think many programs these days are looking for skills, so like software skills, complex methodologies (MRI, physiological data collection, Qualtrics, etc. etc.), stats skills (Excel, SPSS, R, etc.). Some of these are totally things you can even pick up on your own, like there are great coursera courses on R these days. I don't think it even matters if ultimately you won't be needing X skill, it still shows that you can learn novel things, and software/stats is inherently quantitative looking. So even working in a different psych lab, or in the business school or at a health lab just to acquire skills, still is not terrible looking for admissions committees.

 

It doesn't matter if you get a masters and you're not productive while in the program. So my advice is to do things that look productive to admissions committees.--So this might involve getting a masters, but you have to make sure that it's a productive program and the faculty there are doing research and you can pick up actual skills to add to your CV.

 

That's my two cents!  I definitely was in the same boat two years ago.

Edited January 30, 2015 by SallyHam

[sociallypsyched]

I'm in my first year at a social psych program with a well-known advisor.  I was rejected from everywhere 3 years ago (mediocre GRE, fairly good GRE scores, mediocre letters of rec), got into one of the funded masters, and worked my ass off/made connections with people there.  I applied to 10 social psych programs last year and got invitations to interview at 3.  I don't know if I would have gotten into the other two because I withdrew myself from the running when I got in my first choice.  

 

So an MA worked for me.  But I wouldn't go into (serious) debt over it.

[TXInstrument11]

Damn. The GRE is such a bear. I did extremely well on the SAT and, after retaking the GRE and studying, I was able to get my Verbal percentile nearly identical to my SAT score's. Quantitative was stubborn though - didn't budge at all in the retake and was about 15 percentile points lower than my SAT math. So, my Verbal is astronomically high, but my Quant is just so-so and well below the admitted average to top programs.

If I were in your shoes, making it to interview round and everything, I would just hone my GRE score and volunteer at your UG lab for the gap year. "Funded" programs I've looked at still cost upwards of $40K.

[MyDogHasAPhD]

Thanks everyone for their input. The GRE really is so problematic for so many people and I know the argument is that it is supposedly predictive of graduate school success but I'd say that is a statement derived from, in my opinion, a pretty skewed set of data. How can it be said that the GRE is predictive of success if those who don't perform as well don't even get a chance to get accepted and show otherwise?! Boils my blood.

I am pretty much geographically open to just about anywhere. I actually was excited to get out of my current city so I am willing to expand my horizons for both graduate and lab opportunities. I guess I put too many eggs in the PhD program basket and should have been prepared in case it didn't come to fruition. I applied to three research assistant positions that I found postings for yesterday but I think I might also apply to some Masters programs as well and see what happens.

For someone who is a self-proclaimed control freak, this whole "I have no idea where I'm going to be in four months" thing is really unnerving. Not to mention, this whole process has taken such an emotional and financially toll on me. The thought of doing this all over again is pretty much making me want to run for the hills but I guess redundancy is the name of the game here in prospective PhD student land.

[Journey2015]

Thanks everyone for their input. The GRE really is so problematic for so many people and I know the argument is that it is supposedly predictive of graduate school success but I'd say that is a statement derived from, in my opinion, a pretty skewed set of data. How can it be said that the GRE is predictive of success if those who don't perform as well don't even get a chance to get accepted and show otherwise?! Boils my blood.

I am pretty much geographically open to just about anywhere. I actually was excited to get out of my current city so I am willing to expand my horizons for both graduate and lab opportunities. I guess I put too many eggs in the PhD program basket and should have been prepared in case it didn't come to fruition. I applied to three research assistant positions that I found postings for yesterday but I think I might also apply to some Masters programs as well and see what happens.

For someone who is a self-proclaimed control freak, this whole "I have no idea where I'm going to be in four months" thing is really unnerving. Not to mention, this whole process has taken such an emotional and financially toll on me. The thought of doing this all over again is pretty much making me want to run for the hills but I guess redundancy is the name of the game here in prospective PhD student land.

I totally understand. Don't give up. Sometimes things don't go as planned, but who says our plan was the right one?? 

[MyDogHasAPhD]

I totally understand. Don't give up. Sometimes things don't go as planned, but who says our plan was the right one??

Exactly! I am just trying to take this as a sign that it wasn't meant to be at this point in my life for whatever reason and as long as I still want it, which I totally do, then life will find a way of putting it in my path. Tough pill to swallow but I've worked too hard to just accept defeat at this point.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get your Masters?

[mb712]

For someone who is a self-proclaimed control freak, this whole "I have no idea where I'm going to be in four months" thing is really unnerving. Not to mention, this whole process has taken such an emotional and financially toll on me. The thought of doing this all over again is pretty much making me want to run for the hills but I guess redundancy is the name of the game here in prospective PhD student land.

 

This is exactly why December and January were basically miserable months for me!

 

I'm late to the party but other than retaking the GRE, I would suggest you do what you want to do. Not only because you will probably be bummed out (if you don't get accepted anywhere) and need something you enjoy but because there are quite a few pros and cons to both a lab position and a master's program. For example, when I was making my backups plans I basically ruled out master's programs because I couldn't find any that interested me that also fully funded their students. In all reality, both a lab position and a master's program would be an application boost but don't do something that is going to absolutely drain you... Remember you still have to complete a Ph.D. after!

[Generis]

I hate the GRE, and I'm convinced that the experimental section affects your scores due to the mental energy it saps just for their research purposes. (FYI in the "real world" you pay for data collection, not burden your participants with it, ETS). I took it a few times, and if my experimental section was verbal, I did worse. If it was quantitative, i did worse (84% to 64%). To date they have never answered my emails demanding to see the data on the effects of this section off student scores... I believe it should be public knowledge of public universities require it of us

But for me, it hasn't felt like my 64% affected me much. I think it's because 1) it's over 50%, 2) I'm a statistics minor, was a stat TA, and use stat for my job, and 3) I have other distractions in my CV like pubs.

My general rule was not to ace the GRE, but to do good enough to where they would give the rest of my application a look. Honestly fighting to get into the top 1% wasn't worth the time or energy I could be spending doing research or writing more.

But yeah, I emphasize with you all.

[Journey2015]

Exactly! I am just trying to take this as a sign that it wasn't meant to be at this point in my life for whatever reason and as long as I still want it, which I totally do, then life will find a way of putting it in my path. Tough pill to swallow but I've worked too hard to just accept defeat at this point.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you get your Masters?

Don't mind at all. Check your inbox

[Chubberubber]

For what it's worth- you might want to get a masters' degree in a field other than psychology and then re-apply for a PhD. If, during your undergrad you've taken a lot of core psychology courses (in my home country the standard for psych UG majors is around 60 credits of just psych) then I'm not sure how much more you'd gain from a masters' program nor how much it would set you apart from other candidates. If, however, you'd get an MA in a related field (say in public policy or an MSW if you're interested in community psychology), then you'd bring something completely different to the table next time you'd apply. Programs will see you as having an "added value" that other applicants most likely lack... 

[C10H12N2O]

My GRE scores sound similar to yours, I did well in the writing and verbal portion but I got below the 50th percentile in the quantitative portion. The only reason I didn't retake the GRE is because I received A's in all the statistics courses that I took. If you did well in statistics may I suggest addressing your GRE quantitative score in your SOP and say that you do not believe that the score reflects your true ability as you have achieved high grades in the statistics classes that you undertook in your undergrad. I think this is a reasonable thing to do, since lets face it, the GRE tests mostly your geometry skills and NOT your statistics skills. 

My advice would be to try to get some publications. Even if they are classified as 'manuscripts in preparation' when you apply, professors seems to be fairly impressed by  this. I have one publication and two pending and in all three interviews I had my POI asked me tons of questions about each research project and said that they were 'impressed' that I was working on so many publications for someone with a B.A Hons in Psych. 

 

I'm a Canadian so I'm not sure if this applied to all the schools that you applied to. Here, and in the one U.S. school I applied to, you're expected to fulfil the requirements of a master's thesis project before doing your Ph.D. thesis (even if you apply for a Ph.D). IMO it's probably worth applying to a mater's program to try to amp up your publications/conference presentations. They work should count towards your 'Ph.D. only' programs in the long run. Also, you should try to apply to schools with stipends and that offer T.A/R.A jobs in addition to that yearly stipend. That way you won't plunge further into debt. 

[rising_star]

I would go with trying to get more research experience (as a research assistant in a laboratory, lab manager, or something similar like the "clinical interviewer" positions at Emory) and retaking the GRE to get a higher quantitative score. Doing independent studies and an undergraduate thesis really isn't the same as working in a lab full-time simply because of the hours involved and the training you'd receive.

[EastCoasting]

My 2c as a grad student in a good school: volunteer in a lab where you can get a stellar rec from someone really known in your field, and get your GRES up. Also, consider taking the psych GRE. I took it even though it was not required, and my advisor said that it really did stand out the fact that I did so well on both the tests. Also, maybe see about publishing your thesis in like the Psi Chi journal or something. Then you can say you have a manuscript submitted or in prep, and you're the first author. Almost no one will ask what journal you submitted to...

[TXInstrument11]

My 2c as a grad student in a good school: volunteer in a lab where you can get a stellar rec from someone really known in your field, and get your GRES up. Also, consider taking the psych GRE. I took it even though it was not required, and my advisor said that it really did stand out the fact that I did so well on both the tests. Also, maybe see about publishing your thesis in like the Psi Chi journal or something. Then you can say you have a manuscript submitted or in prep, and you're the first author. Almost no one will ask what journal you submitted to...

Damn. I wonder if it would have helped if I added that to more of my apps. I only sent it two schools, one that required it and one accidentally (used the wrong code). Illinois, the only school to accept me so far, was the accidental one. Is 85% good?

[EastCoasting]

I don't know if it would have helped. Obviously there is always the chance, but it's only a piece of the puzzle, and probably the least important one. it is, however, another way to get noticed, and you need to get a foot in the door to be considered.

I think 85the percentile is good. I actually have no idea what the average "good" program scores are. For what it's worth, I don't know of any of my peers who bothered taking it. When I said my score was really high I meant in the 98th percentile.

in my opinion the most important pieces are recs and fit, but you really need at least 70th percentile scores as well--higher for the higher ranking programs.

[TXInstrument11]

I don't know if it would have helped. Obviously there is always the chance, but it's only a piece of the puzzle, and probably the least important one. it is, however, another way to get noticed, and you need to get a foot in the door to be considered.

I think 85the percentile is good. I actually have no idea what the average "good" program scores are. For what it's worth, I don't know of any of my peers who bothered taking it. When I said my score was really high I meant in the 98th percentile.

in my opinion the most important pieces are recs and fit, but you really need at least 70th percentile scores as well--higher for the higher ranking programs.

Yeah, I thought it wouldn't be worth it to send the score if it didn't hit past 90%, so that is why I only sent it twice. I do wonder if it may have helped a bit though since I come from a no-name uni. 

[EastCoasting]

Yeah I know the feeling. I came from a really no name small place. Faculty and POIS would be far more qualified than I to answer what the worthwhile threshold is.

[Dazanfekte]

Interestingly, we have similar profiles :-). This is technically my third round of applications. My first year I applied to one program: my undergraduate institution. I was not accepted. I was, however, accepted into a masters program that I discovered quite late in the game. Turned out to be a blessing in disguise. It was a more intimate program with great faculty and I'm so happy for the experience. 

 

Like you, my quantitative score left much to be desired. Last year I applied to two programs, including my second attempt at my undergrad institution. I was actually told then that it was my quant score that did not allow for me to go to the next round of consideration (that program/school is highly competitive). 

 

So, this is now my third round of apps. The difference: I have since earned a masters. What I'm learning now is that although it is possible to go straight from undergrad to a PhD program, most adcoms are more inclined to recruit students with a masters. You've proven that you can handle the academic rigor of grad school. You've have advance training in your field, including an internship, most likely; and you've most likely completed a thesis with a quantitative component. 

 

I thought about retaking my GRE, but timing and finances never really synched. If its not too late, I really suggest considering applying to masters programs for the fall. You can still apply to a PhD program toward your completion date and never skip a beat. And who knows, your research interests may change. Either way, trust that things work out the way they are supposed to. I was really bummed last year when I didn't get into a program. Today, however, it seems as if things are really falling into place. I don't know what the next few weeks hold, and I'm quite anxious of the unknown. But I feel so much more "prepared" for whatever the next phase is. 

 

#mytwocents

Out of curiosity... how did the results turn out? 

I have low Quat scores, too. But I'm not quite sure about the time and money I could invest in them again for the next round of applications... 

[Journey2015]

I've interviewed for a program and am waiting to hear results, which won't happen until first week of March. My interview was awesome! I accidentally couldn't have asked for it to be any better. It was a full day of interviews with the entire department. In my last meeting of the day, the faculty member said "You look great on paper. And you present very well. You obviously have a lot of experiments and many accomplishments. But I have a question: What's up with your GRE score?"

My answer: "Well, I'm not really a proponent of standardized testing. (quick laughed, and she agreed)However, those scores are a few years old. Since then I have earned a masters degree where I successfully completed advanced level statistics courses, culminating in a quantitative thesis. In my year off, I've also served as a research assistant primarily responsible for the statistical analysis of the project. Though my score does not reflect this, I am confident in my research and analytic skills and my ability to be successful in doctoral level training."

She smiled.

[Journey2015]

Accidentally = actually

[EastCoasting]

That's a great response