Questions about Harvard MPP from admit to Harvard Law School

[quietman]

Hello,

 

I have been admitted to Harvard Law School for 2018 but realise that I would rather purse an MPP, so I plan to defer a year, write the GRE (I can't use the LSAT unless I apply for the joint program during my first year of law school--but that would be far too expensive), then apply to the MPP program this fall.

 

With that in mind I have a few questions:

 

1. Does anyone know if already already being admitted to one program at Harvard raises my chances of getting into HKS for the MPP?

 

2. I have quite a high GPA (4.0 range) and scored in the 99th percentile on the LSAT but have not done math in a while and fear that my score on the quant section of the GRE will be notably lower. Does anyone know the standard quant score (and if possible, scores for the other sections) is for admits to the MPP program?

 

3. Harvard Law School admissions are on a rolling basis from September to February, with one's chances of admission decreasing the later they apply in the cycle. Is this the same with MPP admissions?

 

4. I took no courses in Economics or Statistics. How much will this likely hurt me at HKS?

 

Thank you

Edited February 20, 2015 by quietman

[buckHD]

First, congratulations on the coveted HLS acceptance, whether it's what you want to pursue or not.

 

1. As a person who's researched joint MPP/JD programs, it's pretty standard for admissions decisions for both schools to be independent and unrelated. Getting accepted to HLS will not, on its face, give you an advantage when applying to HKS. I will say, however, that the qualifications that got you into HLS are likely to be pretty appealing to adcomms at HKS as well.

 

2. Most schools give averages or ranges for the GRE scores of previously admitted classes. On the whole, I'd say if you score in the 75th-80th percentile or above, you'd be in a pretty good spot, especially considering your high GPA and verbal/writing skill as evidenced on your LSAT performance. Get a 160+ on the Quant and you'll be well-situated.

 

3. HKS is not rolling, nor are most MPP/MPA programs' admissions processes. The deadline for HKS is the beginning of December (December 2nd this past cycle), so get your application in by then and your application will be considered along with everyone else.

 

4. From the HKS website (emphasis mine): "HKS is a school of leadership and public service. Successful candidates typically demonstrate leadership experience and commitment to the public good, which are qualities often displayed through professional experience and volunteer work during and after college. Our curriculum is demanding, and we look for applicants with the skills needed to manage rigorous coursework. Course requirements vary by program; however, quantitative coursework is part of the curriculum for all programs. Previous coursework in micro- and macroeconomics, and multivariable calculus is required for the MPA/ID Program. Coursework related to quantitative methods (e.g. economics, mathematics, and statistics) is recommended for our other degree programs. Applicants lacking quantitative coursework are strongly encouraged to take these classes prior to applying. Successful candidates also demonstrate strong writing and communication skills. Work experience is preferred, and some degree programs have specific work experience requirements. Read more about our degree programs for more information."

 

Looks like these courses are not required, but rather recommended (and will probably help you be more competitive). I'd recommend you take Statistics/Microeconomics in the summer or the fall, especially if you're worried about your Quant GRE. When applicants lack the coursework, I've read that adcomms look to the GRE Quant score to see indicia of quantitative ability.

 

Hope that helps, and lastly, coming from someone whose dream would be to study Constitutional law from HLS' legendary faculty, don't pass on this tremendous opportunity until you fully consider what is right for you and what you want to achieve. That said, I wish you all the best in pursuing a masters program in Public Policy. I myself am waiting on admissions decisions due to come in a few weeks. Cheers!

[quietman]

Thanks for the detailed response and good luck with your applications!

 

It's been tough deciding what route to pursue. I'd love to do the JD/MPP but it's a bit costly and given that I want to work in policy rather than in legal jobs requiring the JD I'm not sure how much value the latter would be, whether on its own or with the MPP. I also want to work internationally (particularly in Canada) and I'm not sure how useful and American law degree would be, even if it's from Harvard.

Edited February 23, 2015 by quietman

[gradjm]

Congrats on the lsat and hls admit!

 

i have applied to both hls and hks this cycle. Note that when you defer admissions, then some schools may ask you to sign a binding contract that you wouldn't apply to other schools. Harvard may be one of those even though you'd be applying for the MPP program under your plan of deferring the admission.

 

imo if someone can get 99 percentile, which is around 173 or above, the verbal portion is going to be a cakewalk for you. RC of lsat is hundred times harder. GRE math is basic and with sufficient practice you'd be scoring pretty well.

 

HKS admission is not rolling. The deadline is something in the first week of Dec. This year it was Dec 2. They begin reviewing applications only after the deadline, so it doesn't matter how early before the deadline you submit.

 

i don't think no econ/stat course is going to make much difference at all; dat gpa. HKS wants an analytical resume besides the regular one, where you can highlight any analytical experience that you have had.

 

the hks fin aid process seems terrible btw. there are individual forms you have to do for different grants and doesn't look like HKS gives much aid. so not sure if it'd be worth like you're planning.

 

Feel free to PM any question

Edited February 24, 2015 by gradjm

[quietman]

Thanks for the response! It's only feasible for me to pursue one degree and I prefer that to be the MPP. I'm just a bit worried that I won't get in, as in that case I may end up giving my HLS acceptance for nothing. I think I'll have solid numbers (very good GPA but haven't written the GRE) but I only have two years of post-undergrad work expeirence (though I do have some notable volunteer positions), don't speak multiple languages, and haven't taken relevant courses like economics, so I'm a bit anxious about my chances of admission; with HLS it seemed more numbers base so there wasn't as much doubt.

Edited February 25, 2015 by quietman

[Kaneisha]

Hi Quietman, GradJM and hdb2376 have give you some great advice. I wanted to chime in and say that I do recommend you take supplementary coursework in Economics and Statistics to boost your HKS application. This will show a higher level of commitment to the MPP program, as well as be great preparation for the classroom. You don't need to take it anywhere fancy; you can take it at a community college or take an online course. I suggest something like Coursera as a last resort (at least for now).

 

I would add that the supplementary coursework is secondary to your GRE preparation; your GRE score is going to matter more than taking extra courses.

 

No, having been admitted to HLS will not help or hinder your HKS admission; the two applications are evaluated completely separately.

 

I've had several clients apply to the HLS/HKS joint degree, but it seems like you're actually only interested in the HKS degree now. In the case that you're interested, I was recently quoted in a U.S. News article with the title "When to Choose a Policy Degree Instead of a JD" (It also has a different title sometimes; I think U.S. News is using some sort of "dynamic titling" software that changes the title, which I suppose is neither here nor there). The article: http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/articles/2014/07/31/consider-a-masters-in-public-policy-for-pursuing-a-law-related-career

 

Also - congratulations on the HLS admission and a second congrats for being courageous and self-aware enough to know you'd rather do the MPP! Make sure you do your research (talk to lots of current students, recent alumni, and alumni 10 years out) when making your final decision on giving up the HLS admission for a chance at the MPP.

[gradjm]

does the binding deferral at HLS that they award generously would prohibit someone from applying to a program different than JD (e.g HKS MPP) like the OP next year?

 

i applied to HKS first this year for mpp in November. Later in the year i decided to apply to HLS also for jd. I didn't use the joint degree option in either application that you have to check and didn't write a joint-degree essay in both application. For mpp i didn't know i'd apply to any other program. It seems that harvard allows one to do joint-degree if someone gets admitted separately to each program even if they didn't fill the joint-degree parts in the application. But if one wants to only degree if admitted to both and is still undecided which one, then what would be the "right" approach to handle this question during admissions interview at HLS?

Being undecided may not be good for admissions chances.

Edited February 28, 2015 by gradjm

[quietman]

Bump...

 

I've been thinking more about what to pursue, and I've wondered about a PHD in public policy rather than just the MPP. Is the PHD generally only advisable if one wants to be a professor (which I don't) and doesn't want to work in a think tank or in government? Would someone with a PHD be limited to research positions, or would jobs that also involve practical aspects be open to them too?

 

Thank you!

Edited June 2, 2015 by quietman

[quietman]

Update after getting my GRE scores back:

Academically how competitive am I for Harvard's MPP?

-4.0+ GPA and the top student in my program of over 150 people

-170 V (99th percentile); 155 Q (60th percentile; ouch); 6 AW (99th percentile)

-174 LSAT (99th percentile; the application inquires about test scores other than the GRE)

-At least a solid resume and recs

Any thoughts on how detrimental the quant score will be? I have some quant experience in a practical setting but things didn't go right on test day.

[chocolatecheesecake]

On 11/24/2015, 9:40:08, quietman said:

Update after getting my GRE scores back:

Academically how competitive am I for Harvard's MPP?

-4.0+ GPA and the top student in my program of over 150 people

-170 V (99th percentile); 155 Q (60th percentile; ouch); 6 AW (99th percentile)

-174 LSAT (99th percentile; the application inquires about test scores other than the GRE)

-At least a solid resume and recs

Any thoughts on how detrimental the quant score will be? I have some quant experience in a practical setting but things didn't go right on test day.

Four pieces of advice:

1) To make up for your so-so quant score, definitely take economics or statistics courses and get an A, as has been recommended to you already.
2) A PhD in public policy is overkill to qualify you for a practical job in policy-making or analysis. You don't need five plus years of schooling, just two! 
3) Get more detailed information by having informational interviews with current MPPs, especially those at Harvard, even policy PhD students. You're looking for a kind of certainty and information that GradCafé is just not going to be able to give you. 
4) Since you're pretty sure you want an MPP and not a JD, why don't you apply to other schools? Even if you don't get into Harvard MPP, I don't see you deciding to do the JD anyway. Since there's still some time before deadlines, I highly suggest you putting eggs in other baskets too. 

[quietman]

Thanks for the advice!

I have applied to several schools, but I am most intrested in HKS and have more of a past with Harvard than any of the other schools, so that's why the bulk of my attention has been there. I think it's probably too late for me to take quant courses that help my application, but I've taken a few related courses and done well, so I hope my application doesn't get crushed by my relatively low quant GRE score.

Edited November 28, 2015 by quietman

[chocolatecheesecake]

13 hours ago, quietman said:

Thanks for the advice!

I have applied to several schools, but I am most intrested in HKS and have more of a past with Harvard than any of the other schools, so that's why the bulk of my attention has been there. I think it's probably too late for me to take quant courses that help my application, but I've taken a few related courses and done well, so I hope my application doesn't get crushed by my relatively low quant GRE score.

To consider: just signing up for a quant course for the wintertime or the spring, and putting down that you intend to do so on your application can help. You may well need to fulfill pre-requisites in stats or econ if you're enrolling in an MPP program anyway.