Kaneisha

Hi @Marie21, just popping in to say thanks for the tag, but unfortunately I don't have the time right this second to give a thoughtful response as it is peak application season. However, I wanted to at least let you know I did see your post. I didn't read it in its entirety, but I will reiterate what I often tell clients worried about finances. I do not recommend attending any graduate program from which you'll graduate with a debt load equal to more than a reasonable estimate of your first year's salary out of school. I graduated with six figures of student loan debt that ballooned to $150,000+ while I struggled as an entrepreneur and author (totally my choice, and I acknowledge that), and it was arduous paying it off (I paid off my loans in seven years by sending in huge payments whenever I got clients). I hope that tiny tip was helpful, and if not, I apologize and wish you luck with making your decision.

@Damis I would love that!

@Damis you are welcome! I applied back when you could still do the Harvard MPA/MBA, so once I was admitted to HBS, I simply made a call and asked to be switched over to the MPA2. Note that when I first called, someone told me "You can't do that," which I knew was incorrect, so I just called again and spoke to someone else. These strange things happen occasionally in large, busy institutions, which is why I always suggest sending in questions and requests in writing and to the actual decision-maker. I suggest folks fulfill the requirement by taking graduate-level courses at a reputable university (does not have to be super-prestigious; just nationally accredited and not a for-profit school). Make sure you take the type of courses that HKS lists. Don't just take courses that "sound" like what HKS would want you to take. Refer to that same link we both linked to. Since you're applying to Wharton, Tuck, Stanford, and/or MIT, at the same time as you're applying to HKS, you simply apply directly to the MPA2.

Hi @Ken528 and @Damis, As Damis mentioned, after this year's deadline, you should email (I always recommend emailing over calling so that you have a written record of what you were told) HKS Admissions to get a definitive answer on your eligibility. Clearly spell out how many/which graduate-level courses you have completed and how many years of full-time professional work experience you will have at time of your application. Currently, the MPA2 requires that you have 3 years full-time work experience at time of application and 4 qualifying graduate-level courses. Ken, from your post, it sounds like you're hoping to sub in the Higher Civil Services exam for those 4 courses. In my opinion, this will not meet the qualification. It was unclear from your post how many years of full-time professional work experience you will have when you apply, but there isn't much (if any) flexibility there either. Damis: the course and work experience eligibility has been around for at least 3 years, as I've been working with clients to apply to the MPA2 for the last 6 (and also was an MPA2 myself). Best of luck to both of you! Kaneisha

As a graduate of what is now known as the HBS 2+2 program (and a professional on the advising side of admissions), I highly recommend you opt for Fletcher's Map Your Future program as well. Every $10,000 in aid you can get will offset approximately $100/month in student loan repayments over a 10-year repayment period. Like @went_away said, you'll also benefit from having work experience as well, so it's almost like a multiplier effect.

I would chime in here and say that rather than thinking that the policy programs are not as competitive as you think, the people here at Grad Cafe—especially the people engaging a lot, asking lots of questions, and/or answering questions—are much more prepared than most other applicants for the challenge of gaining admission. Lots of people apply to graduate school, and especially policy school, with a "Let me throw my hat in the ring and just see if I'll get in" approach, and don't end up putting their best candidacy forward. The GradCafe'rs approach the application process with more intention, organization, and knowledge of the process and why they are going to grad school. Basically two sides of the same coin but from a slightly different perspective. Breathe, everyone! If you put your best effort forward (and get quality information from the schools and people you trust on here or elsewhere), you will end up exactly where you belong.

Hey @kamilas and @matt99, Columbia SIPA's admissions blog has a few tips on how to handle the video essay. You can access it here. One tip I want to impress upon you and other applicants is to make sure you have good lighting. Your light source should be facing your face and behind your camera. So you should be facing a window or desk lamp, not sitting with your back to a window or your light source. If you sit with your back to the window, your face will be a dark silhouette. Look out for any distracting things in the background--like an overflowing laundry hamper or a poster in the background that has text that is almost legible but just not quite. Hopefully my team and I can pump out a blog post with more tips for you all before it's too late! Best of luck!

Hi @matt99, I really like the idea of a Harvard MPP/MPA and an MUP. I'm a Harvard MBA & MPA, I have a Harvard MUP/MArch on my team, and we currently have a client applying to the MPP/MUP at Harvard. While I only took one class at the GSD (it was a case-based Economics course that used Urban Planning cases), I really enjoyed it, and have since seen the amazing success of two of my friends who graduated from GSD and now teach there. While it might be true that the MPA produces more administrative/managerial people than policy analysts (I don't know if this is actually true), you can take almost whatever classes you want as a Harvard MPA, so if you want to veer toward more policy analysis or skills-based courses such as negotiations, you can do that. As a wordsmith and advocate-type who prefers to lean into my strengths, I focused most of my MPA coursework on communication and leadership courses, such as "Public Narrative," "Arts of Communication," and "Writing for Public Policy." I suggest you reach out to current and recent MUP/MPP students via LinkedIn to chat with them briefly and get their perspective on the dual degree. I hope that you'll be wowed by how open people are to sharing their thoughts! Best of luck on deciding what to do next!

Hi @mpamppquestions, In addition to the great advice you've already received, I would add that if you aren't able to bring your GRE Quant score up to be closer to CMU's scores (hopefully you will!), I recommend you take some supplemental coursework at a community college, through a university's self-paced online courses, or if absolutely necessary, via Coursera or something similar. The classes I recommend are: Calculus, Statistics, Macroeconomics, and Microeconomics. Considering you probably don't have time to take the equivalent of a semester's worth of classes, prioritize Statistics and Microeconomics (if you haven't already taken them in college). I often recommend this to my clients with low GRE scores. Best of luck!

Hi @grelover, According to the (imperfect) GRE to GMAT converter, your score would be about a 650 on the GMAT. Without knowing your GPA or other stats and background information, I would say that you should aim for a slightly higher score (GMAT equivalent of 700 or better) to be maximally competitive for a Top 20-ranked MBA program. As for Ms Computer Science-related programs, you should aim for a Quant score that is in the 85th percentile or better.

@MD guy is mostly right. It's not impossible but it certainly isn't as easy to break into banking or consulting when you're several years out. Even with that said, if I reenter the "work for other people" world, I'm a better fit for a pre-IPO well-funded startup, a corporate marketing role, or human capital role. But you are right! I definitely have the "insurance" that comes with having a Harvard MBA. That's why I impress upon the policy-only candidates to minimize their student loan debt!

@aqua_bro eh...I can't really blame anyone but myself (and perhaps the American education system as a whole). I was the one who signed on the dotted line as a clueless 23-year-old for that much student loan debt. Sometimes, I wonder how much better my finances and life in general might be without all this debt, but I also wonder if I was just vulnerable and would have gotten myself wrapped up in some other kind of financial ruin (e.g. buying a big house I couldn't afford because that's the grownup thing to do). I could have chosen to go to work for a big company after graduation but I chose not to. That would have helped me pay down the debt much more quickly than working for myself. Life is full of tradeoffs. It's important you do your research to understand the obvious and less obvious consequences of those tradeoffs. I recommend HKS to anyone who is clear on why they are going and who can graduate with a reasonable amount of student loan debt, whether it's because they got a scholarship, have a ton of savings, are being supported by family, etc. Stay encouraged but also well researched and cautious!

I'm happy to see confirmation of my advice! @botbot22 congratulations on turning things around!

Whenever I get an inquiry from a prospective client who was rejected from every school, nearly every single time the main problem was one application weakness (low GPA, low years of work experience, or low GRE) combined with mediocre essays. I have rarely seen an applicant with stellar essays get rejected from every school when they apply with "good enough" scores in other areas. I suggest having some friends, colleagues, or trusted contacts review your essays (or entire application for that matter) to see if they agree with my theory and if it applies in your case.

@CCD2016, you've already gotten some good advice here. I just wanted to pop in and give an actual number (many people overestimate the earning potential right out of policy school as many joint degrees and people who go into the private sector skew the numbers upward). I recommend you take on no more than $40,000 - $50,000 in student loan debt for the entire graduate degree. If you can really keep it down to $25,000, you're doing great and go for it! I also recommend applying to external (not school-based) scholarships and fellowships to bring that number down even more. Best of luck!

@Quietman, I love @energizer92's no-nonsense reply. I would just add that I recommend you give yourself enough time to retake the test three times before the submission deadline. I recommend considering retaking the GRE in July, September, and then mid-November. You don't have to take it all three times, but working on that schedule gives you enough time to take it three times if necessary. If by September's test you haven't broken through to a significantly higher quant score, I recommend taking a self-paced Microeconomics course and either Statistics or Calculus. If you have the time, I'd recommend taking all three. But, yes, concentrate on increasing your GRE score for now!

Socrates, I feel your pain. While my experience doesn't exactly match yours, I am six years out of school, making a good living as an education entrepreneur, but still feeling very weighed down by the amount of student loan debt I have (about $70,000 left at this point). I went to HBS basically tuition-free because they saw how little income I'd had combined with my existing debt, so most of my $140k in student loan debt that I graduated with was from policy school and three years of living expenses (which I could have done a much better job of minimizing). I want to concur that I do not think it is wise to go into high levels of debt for a policy degree. For even the most elite school of your wildest dreams (whatever that is for you), I think something around $40,000 - $50,000 is the absolute max you should take on for the entire degree. I would encourage anyone who is feeling dismayed at having gone to policy school or any other graduate degree to challenge yourself to make the very most of your school's career services office. I know it can be frustrating to try and use a few resources and feel like they aren't working for you, but your tuition paid for your access to those resources as an alum, and you'd be surprised how open the professionals in those offices are to getting whatever resources they are lacking in place to make sure they are serving their alumni well. After all, if alumni don't go out and do well in their careers and feel great about their experience, they won't give back to the school or help encourage others to go. All that is to say, please don't give up on your school even if you're feeling disillusioned, angry, or in despair. You did the hard work to earn the degree. Do what it takes to make the degree work for you--to make the time, money, and effort you spent worth it.

I agree with RCtheSS that a joint degree sounds like a good option for you. The moderators here get mad at me for some reason when I link to outside websites, but there's a U.S. News article about pursuing a JD and/or MPP based on your interests and I think it could be helpful. You mentioned being interested in human rights law as well as long-term earning potential concerns, which tells me you'd be a better fit for law school--as long as you can get a substantial scholarship. I also like the idea of you graduating debt-free from an MPP program, and working your way up the ranks of your desired field over the years. The main issue is whether or not you actually want to be a lawyer or work in a legal-adjacent field. You can't be a lawyer without an actual JD (in most states), but it isn't clear to me from your post that you want to be a lawyer. Best of luck in making your decision!

Congratulations to all of you have been admitted! You're in for quite a journey for the next two years, so get some sleep now while you can! For those of you who received rejection notifications, please stay encouraged in your pursuit of a top-notch policy degree. I've seen a LOT of people reapply to HKS and gain admission once they worked on key areas of weakness in their profile. Use this forum and other trustworthy resources to get feedback on your actual application in its entirety (not just your profile stats) so that you are equipped with the information you need to reapply next season or in a few years. For those of you on the waitlist, I do not envy you! That status can be very frustrating. But there is hope!

First of all congratulations!!! Second of all, as an HKS alum with crazy grad school debt and as an admissions consultant who helps about 100 people apply to these schools and fellowships every year, YES, you would be very crazy to turn this offer down. This is a time for celebration!

Hi GCTSan, I have to echo Rising Star's sentiment that if you know your school prefers 2 out of 3 letters come from professors, then you should do that. However, I wanted to double-check that you got the information that your school prefers 2 out of 3 letters from a professor from a reliable source. Did the school directly state that on their website? Did an official representative from the school tell you this? If the 2 out of 3 rule is just hearsay, you may want to verify that this is actually true before you make your decision. Best of luck! Kaneisha

Applying and then deferring a year to try and get scholarships the second time around is not usually going to work out. Many of the funding decisions happen simultaneously with the admissions cycle and scholarship offers are used to recruit people to the school. Therefore, if you accept your place at a school and then defer, they don't have much incentive to give you a scholarship the second year because you've already committed. What I suggest you do instead is apply to a range of schools—say 6-8 schools, all of which you'd be happy to go to. Then, send your most generous offer to all your other schools and ask if they can increase your financial aid or match it. That works quite a bit with my clients, and as long as you ask in writing, courteously, and don't make any ultimatums ("I can't attend your school unless...") it's all fine. I wrote a blog post about how to do this in detail. Best of luck! Kaneisha

Hi Kasbah (and Chocolate Cheesecake), I recommend my clients applying to top policy schools take / have taken the following courses and earned a B+ or better by the time they matriculate (better to take by the time you apply): Macroeconomics Microeconomics Calculus Statistics If you want super-bonus points, I'd recommend also taking: Accounting Finance (also called Corporate Finance) Spreadsheet Modeling / Excel Skills Places I recommend taking the classes: places like your local community college/junior college, UT, UCLA (online, independent and/or self-directed classes) with Coursera as a last resort option (at least for now while Admissions Committees decide how much they value courses taken via Coursera). Yes, I would say you should round a 3.396 up to a 3.4. Best of luck! Kaneisha

Hi Rheidzan, If you're primarily interested in reputation and then curriculum second, I would rank your choices in this order: Columbia, Berkeley, UPenn. If deadlines are coming up soon, I suggest you apply to all three programs (if you have the time, money and energy), and throughout the application process, see which one you like the most in terms of professors, fellow students, curriculum, and schedule. If you still have at least three months for your deadlines (which is the most likely case), then I suggest you do just a bit of research on each school and then narrow it down to your top two. Best of luck! Kaneisha

Hi FranzFan, You've already received some great guidance from Peter. I would also second you considering the Doctor of Education Leadership at Harvard Graduate School of Education. It's a fully-funded three-year program run out of the Education school but with coursework across Harvard Business School, Harvard Kennedy School, and lots of internships and field work built in. It was just starting up as I was leaving Harvard and found it very appealing. If you plan to stay in education, I think this could be great for you. Secondly, if you have the time, money, and energy, I would recommend you apply to at least 8 policy schools and search for and apply for fellowships within those schools. Once you get your financial aid packages from each, you can take your most generous offers and ask other schools to match. I guide my clients in doing this all the time, and I'd say it works at least 50% of the time, meaning they receive more aid. This is not something that many applicants do, but it is completely allowed and not frowned upon. It is called writing a financial aid appeal letter. Here are two blog posts (post one, post two) where I write about how to write a financial aid appeal letter with a sample. Some additional schools that I think may give you generous funding based on my client work (besides Michigan Ford) are: UT LBJ, Duke Sanford, and Berkeley Goldman. HKS has a lot of money to give out, but your current stats don't stand out to me necessarily as getting you a full ride. You could always apply though! If you do end up applying at HKS (or any other graduate school at Harvard), I recommend you apply for the Frank Knox Memorial Fellowship. Basically, the stronger your applicant profile as compared to the school's average incoming profile, the better your chances of getting a fellowship at the school. Good luck! Kaneisha