MFA Applications of Color

[lagoon91]

hey yall,

 

i'm just curious about other POC (as in self-identified non-white ppl, because somehow i always need to clarify) who are applying to MFA programs. i'm curious about how many of us there are (if youre willing to show yourselves!), where everyone applied/how the process is going for you, where you wanna go, what you're looking for in a program, any fears or concerns based on potentially being a POC in an MFA program, etc etc. 

 

I applied to a ton of places myself, and it's really important to me that i not be the only POC in workshop/the faculty has at least some POC on staff, because that can be really weird and difficult. that's why i so badly wanna go to Indiana, since they make serious effort to accept a diverse cohort each year.

 

thoughts, comments?

[lagoon91]

i meant to title this "MFA Applicants of Color", oops 

[HeyIowa]

I'm a POC who got into Iowa (as you've gathered from the other thread). No real concerns about being a POC in an MFA program. I went to school in New York and I've only encountered a great amount of support throughout my life from pretty much everybody. Don't worry, you won't be the only POC in the workshop. Schools want diversity just as much as you do! 

[SarahWakes]

I'm from Bangladesh, which used to be a part of India. Applied to the University of Oregon. 

[sandy bubbles]

Interesting, lagoon91. I'm a POC who applied to many schools. I'm also interested in places like Indiana b/c of their commitment to diversity within the program, but still have mixed feelings about locales where POC are the exception (beyond program boundaries, that is). That's more for quality of life reasons than anything else--not because I hang out exclusively with POC or anything, but because it's not fun always feeling like the odd one out.

 

I've had odd workshop experiences when I'm the only POC in the room, too, which often seems tied to geography (diversity of the place in question). For writing reasons, I want to go somewhere with few distractions, and I think I could write happily in many places. Geography wasn't my top concern. But I've been thinking about this issue, too.

 

But I dunno. If you got into one program with slightly more diversity, versus another program where other aspects suited you better (length of program, funding, etc.), which would you choose? I mean, I hope we're all lucky enough to get to choose   . 

[SarahWakes]

I had the chance once to choose between Sarah Lawrence and Temple U. When I went to visit Sarah Lawrence, and spent a little time in one of the CNF workshops, I was not thrilled that only one out of nineteen students was a POC. I chose Temple instead - smaller classes and my cohort had about half POC, which was nice. But I didn't like the program and did terribly. This time around, if I'm accepted, I hope I won't be the only POC but it will matter a whole lot less. 

[lagoon91]

thanks for your comments all. for me it's certainly important that a MFA program have both a serious commitment to diverse cohorts while also being a quality program. i wouldn't want to attend a program that has a good number of folks of color if the program itself was not fantastic. at the same time, a good program knows the importance of have varied and representative voices.

 

i have POC friends in various high tier MFA programs who lament their time there because they've been told from students AND faculty that their work is "too ethnic", "not relatable", "too multicultural", "written with an agenda", critiques that have nothing to do with standard of work. i don't want to be in workshop with people criticizing me for using "ethnic names" rather that making comments about sentence structure or grammar. i want to enjoy my MFA experience as much as any other student in the cohort.

 

sandy bubbles, that's an interesting question. i think it would be a hard decision to make, because a better suited program would be preferential; i would just hope i would feel supported there in my work and goals. but hopefully we'll have the privilege of choosing  

[emburst]

Excellent thread, lagoon91. This is why I'll try to visit every program I get accepted to, sit in their workshop, talk to the faculty. It does get awfully tiring hearing those comments of "not relatable" "ethnic names" (although I've never gotten them from faculty).

[sandy bubbles]

Yea I agree with you, lagoon91. I just read Justin Torres' We the Animals, which I thought was amazing, and then read about how he got a lot of that nonsense feedback at Iowa. Same with other writers I admire, like Junot Diaz and Cornell. On the plus side, even though they got some throwaway critiques in workshop, they still produce great writing! So maybe, in some twisted way, that criticism can lead to even more boldness/confidence. 

 

The program visits sound like a smart plan, emburst. Thanks for the perspective, Sarahwakes, and good luck with Oregon! And forgot to say congrats, HeyIowa!!

[ovalwriter]

I am a POC. Junot Diaz's article in the New Yorker, "MFA vs POC," was an interesting read. All we can do is hope that we'll get into a program where the faculty, and our classmates, will appreciate diversity (truely). My writing sample gives a very clear indication that my writing will mostly be ethnic. My personal statement also explains why I write the types of stories I write. I think being honest in personal statements will help ensure that we don't get into a program where we'd experience a lot of those "too ethnic" types of comments from anyone.

[lagoon91]

yea i definitely tried to make it obvious in my personal statement and writing sample that i would be coming to workshop with a particular perspective, so nobody's shocked, haha.

 

sandy bubbles good point! i hold out to some hope about the great writers of color that MFA programs have produced (scores from Iowa like ZZ Packer, Junot Diaz at Cornell, Edwidge Danticat at Brown, etc...) i think POC at these programs definitely have a lot to offer, and a lot to gain. 

 

did anyone else have a specific faculty member(s) they wanted to work with? i was excited about Iowa because Ayana Mathis is coming in the fall. also Zadie Smith is at NYU, and that would be the best thing ever!

[SarahWakes]

You're welcome Sandy Bubbles. Good luck to both of us! 

[ovalwriter]

I think I'd enjoy learning from Rafia Zafar at WUSTL.

[ruylopez88]

Excellent thread, lagoon91. This is why I'll try to visit every program I get accepted to, sit in their workshop, talk to the faculty. It does get awfully tiring hearing those comments of "not relatable" "ethnic names" (although I've never gotten them from faculty).

 

The whole "too ethnic" criticism just baffles me, but I have seen it happen... I wonder if it's because students see ethnic literature as "belonging some place else"... by that, I mean that ethnic or world literature isn't usually interspersed into the curriculum, so most people have no exposure to it and have no idea how to comment on it in a way that is useful. During undergrad- at my school, anyway- to meet English major requirements you only had to take one "ethnic lit" class, which could be Af-Am, Asian-Am, Latino, Native American etc. So you could graduate having only ever read, like, 5 books by a POC in one semester, and the rest of your English credits would be white American or British lit. I would like to think that students would want to fill in those gaps and read more ethnic or world lit outside of class, but I'm not sure how much it happens. 

 

Anyway... I hope that anyone advanced enough in their writing life to seriously pursue an MFA would consider reading a lot of books by writers of varying backgrounds before setting foot in a workshop, or at least before giving unhelpful comments like "Don't use colloquial dialogue," or "The names are too ethnic," etc.

[heliogabalus]

I sometimes wonder if Junot Diaz's complaints about Cornell are a bit disingenuous. In his "that shit was too white" article, he mentions 2 other classmates who were people of color. That sounds like way too few, I agree--until you remember that Cornell only has about 8 MFA students at one time. Was the MFA program larger when he was a student there?

 

(I have an MFA from a newish, not-on-anyone's-radar program, where one of the major strengths of the program was its diversity.)

[emburst]

The whole "too ethnic" criticism just baffles me, but I have seen it happen... I wonder if it's because students see ethnic literature as "belonging some place else"... by that, I mean that ethnic or world literature isn't usually interspersed into the curriculum, so most people have no exposure to it and have no idea how to comment on it in a way that is useful. During undergrad- at my school, anyway- to meet English major requirements you only had to take one "ethnic lit" class, which could be Af-Am, Asian-Am, Latino, Native American etc. So you could graduate having only ever read, like, 5 books by a POC in one semester, and the rest of your English credits would be white American or British lit. I would like to think that students would want to fill in those gaps and read more ethnic or world lit outside of class, but I'm not sure how much it happens. 

 

Anyway... I hope that anyone advanced enough in their writing life to seriously pursue an MFA would consider reading a lot of books by writers of varying backgrounds before setting foot in a workshop, or at least before giving unhelpful comments like "Don't use colloquial dialogue," or "The names are too ethnic," etc.

Yes, there seems to be this resistance (with some people) to include the minority experience in breadth of American literature. When someone says "these characters are too ethnic," I would say that it's a closet statement for "these characters are not white enough" because American = white. A delusion many of us have to deal with. And it just gets awfully tiring trying to convince someone my stories ARE American stories. It's not my job to cure people's ignorance, but we're often relegated to the task.

 

I sometimes wonder if Junot Diaz's complaints about Cornell are a bit disingenuous. In his "that shit was too white" article, he mentions 2 other classmates who were people of color. That sounds like way too few, I agree--until you remember that Cornell only has about 8 MFA students at one time. Was the MFA program larger when he was a student there?

 

(I have an MFA from a newish, not-on-anyone's-radar program, where one of the major strengths of the program was its diversity.)

It's been awhile since I read that article, but maybe he wasn't just talking about the cohort composition but also the faculty, the curriculum, the books that the faculty taught, etc. Not sure if the cohort size has changed, but it's an interesting point.

But I remember an interview where Lan Samantha Chang talks about her experience at Iowa and how one of the faculty told her she needed to stop writing about Asian-Americans if she wanted to be relevant. I can't imagine those attitudes being much different at Cornell during Junot's time.

[heliogabalus]

But I remember an interview where Lan Samantha Chang talks about her experience at Iowa and how one of the faculty told her she needed to stop writing about Asian-Americans if she wanted to be relevant.

 

Wow--that's mind boggling. I can't imagine a professor, or anyone outside the most narrow-minded student, thinking something like that, much less suggesting it.

[SarahWakes]

I sometimes wonder if Junot Diaz's complaints about Cornell are a bit disingenuous. In his "that shit was too white" article, he mentions 2 other classmates who were people of color. That sounds like way too few, I agree--until you remember that Cornell only has about 8 MFA students at one time. Was the MFA program larger when he was a student there?

 

(I have an MFA from a newish, not-on-anyone's-radar program, where one of the major strengths of the program was its diversity.)

Where did you go? Also, how well funded is it?

[emburst]

Wow--that's mind boggling. I can't imagine a professor, or anyone outside the most narrow-minded student, thinking something like that, much less suggesting it.

I believe she was at Iowa around the same time Junot was at Cornell--the early to mid 90s? Sentiments have certainly improved, I hope, since then (whether at Iowa, Cornell, or elsewhere). From my experience, I've found this to be true. It is more of the narrow-minded student nowadays.

[heliogabalus]

Sarah, I went to Queens College (CUNY) for the translation track. There was no funding from the college, but my work helped with the tuition--and since I could continue working while I studied it was probably the most affordable option.

[heliogabalus]

(I also took a number of fiction and poetry classes while I was there, and I think they were as beneficial to translation-work as the straight translation courses.)