Looking for advice - Undergrad student

[deleteacct]

Hello everyone, I'm not sure if this is the right section to post this is, but I'd really like some advice

 

I'm currently an undergrad at UCSD with a major in Political Science. I'll be most likely graduating this year, which is ahead of time, as I've only been here for three years.

 

My overall GPA is around a 3.5 and has been on a steady increase (it was at a 3.1 after about 1.5 years) and my Political Science Major GPA is a 3.85.

 

Basically, the reason I've come here is to ask for any information and insight you guys might have for me. I was always "set" on law school and have studied for the LSAT, but as time goes on and I get closer to graduation, I really feel like the world of Politics and Political Science is the one I want to be apart of -- whether it's using my degree to work for some sort of think thank, research and academia (professor), a government agency (analyst of some sort), etc. etc. etc.

 

I already have been promised by 2 of my professors, who are supposedly well known in the Poli Sci world, that they will write me a letter of recommendation. Alongside that I also have a promise from a professor in the linguistics and literature department, and a TA of mine from last year who was finishing up his PhD.

 

Also I'd be able to get a letter of rec. from my employee (I work at a law firm part-time) and I speak 3 different languages, not sure if that helps at all, just throwing out details.

 

So yeah, any help would be great, whether you suggest a Masters vs. a PhD route for what I've detailed about myself, just any knowledge would be great.

 

*I'm also going to talk to my professor this week about doing an independent study with him for the next quarter, and then also an honors thesis with him the following quarter, since I believe that would be necessary (or at the very least, look good) on my resume for grad schools?

Thank you.

[angellily0330]

LORs sound good, and yes, definitely try to get that independent study in if you can. That's how my research started. I was originally only going to do it for a semester, but a year later, I'm still at it

 

One thing I regret is not having done a thesis in undergrad, because you need a writing sample when you apply. That was kind of a headache for me, as I had to scramble and put together different papers, instead of having one coherent one. 

 

For me, I was originally going to go the master's route---my goals are think tank or government as well... however I did want that PhD. I didn't really think I had what it took to get accepted to a PhD program right out of undergrad, but my advisor urged to try anyway. What I ended up doing was applying mostly to PhDs with the option of being considered for the Master's if I didn't get accepted at that school (some schools have this option, some don't). 

 

I think it's good to have other people give their opinions on your situation, but at the end of the day, you know yourself best. Do research on schools that you think would be a good fit---both Master's and PhDs (check out GRE scores, GPA requirements etc). Some Masters are designed for careers, and others prepare you for PhDs. Ask your political science professors as well, as they've been part of this "world" for awhile I presume. 

 

Sorry for the long response, but your situation sounds eerily similar to what mine was a year ago. Best of luck. 

[deleteacct]

LORs sound good, and yes, definitely try to get that independent study in if you can. That's how my research started. I was originally only going to do it for a semester, but a year later, I'm still at it

 

One thing I regret is not having done a thesis in undergrad, because you need a writing sample when you apply. That was kind of a headache for me, as I had to scramble and put together different papers, instead of having one coherent one. 

 

For me, I was originally going to go the master's route---my goals are think tank or government as well... however I did want that PhD. I didn't really think I had what it took to get accepted to a PhD program right out of undergrad, but my advisor urged to try anyway. What I ended up doing was applying mostly to PhDs with the option of being considered for the Master's if I didn't get accepted at that school (some schools have this option, some don't). 

 

I think it's good to have other people give their opinions on your situation, but at the end of the day, you know yourself best. Do research on schools that you think would be a good fit---both Master's and PhDs (check out GRE scores, GPA requirements etc). Some Masters are designed for careers, and others prepare you for PhDs. Ask your political science professors as well, as they've been part of this "world" for awhile I presume. 

 

Sorry for the long response, but your situation sounds eerily similar to what mine was a year ago. Best of luck. 

 

I appreciate the long response.

 

Do you know in what ways exactly is an independent study different from an honors thesis, both seem very similar to me haha but I know there's obviously some major difference.

 

How heavy is the GRE on the math side -- and how important is that math score to Grad Schools? I honestly never really liked math to begin with, and haven't taken a math class in a few years.

 

Also, are you currently in a PhD program now, if so, how do you like it?

[angellily0330]

Nope not currently in a program, starting Fall 2015. That's why the whole application process is still fresh in my head and I still get nightmares (jk). 

 

I would say with an honors thesis there's an end result---usually a longish paper that could serve very well as a writing sample. For my independent study, I mostly searched through data bases and turned in a 7 page paper at the end of the semester, so not nearly long enough. Basically I would say one is more structured than the other. 

 

What field of Poli Sci are you interested in? That'll determine how important quantitative skills are, although it's helpful to have math background for all of them. GRE math was really annoying for me, and I basically sucked at it (most definitely the worst part of my application). Since you haven't taken math in a few years, definitely try to get a good quant score, because that'll basically be the only way they can measure you in that aspect. 

[Evgeny55]

Admission process is in many ways black box. You don't know who is on admission committee at prticular cycle, and thay may matter a great deal. That being said, I think you have a pretty decent chances to land your application at a reasonable good place. I am not sure about top-10 because they put significant value to the GPA. You can circumvent this by scoring in 90th percentiles in both V and Q sections of the GRE, good AW score also helps. UCSD is a great school, and your LOR would probably constitute one of the strongest parts of your application. Now couple of points.

First, think throughly whether you want to be in academia. There are advantages of this type of career. You have to work a lot, but you will decide what is the topic that interests you. You can organize your time in a manner which is convenient for you (while in the office you typically have to work from time X to time Y 5 days a week). There are also disadvantages, academic job market being the major one. It is incredibly tough, though by no means impossible, to land your job application to research university from top-20 list. 

Second, you should think what kind of program do you want to apply to. My advice is to pick a program which is strong with methods, especially quantitative and formal methodology, since this is kind of skills that you can use in plenty of places (e.g. analyst positions). There is always a possibility that in the end you won't find academic job that is suitable for you. And while it is not preferable for vast majority of people who study at Ph.D. programs, you should consider working in the private or public sector as a possibility, and methods training will give you an edge in searching this kind of jobs. 

Third, if you choose between MA and Ph.D., go for Ph.D. MA costs money, and typically substantive amount of money, while Ph.D., if you get funding, will allow you to become financially independent (at least to a certain extent). However, you may consider receiving MA in a different discipline as a possible option. MA in economics with a good GPA from a good place will give you an edge in competition for Ph.D. admission. If you are able to get high GPA in econ MA program, you will be at the edge of competition at the best schools, given that your GREs after receiving MA in economics will be high. 

Good luck!

[victorydance]

I appreciate the long response.

 

Do you know in what ways exactly is an independent study different from an honors thesis, both seem very similar to me haha but I know there's obviously some major difference.

 

How heavy is the GRE on the math side -- and how important is that math score to Grad Schools? I honestly never really liked math to begin with, and haven't taken a math class in a few years.

 

Also, are you currently in a PhD program now, if so, how do you like it?

 

Well political science is a heavy math field (unless you go into theory - but there are no jobs for that), so if you don't like math then you will not like political science. 

 

I really urge you to tread with caution. Judging by your posts, you haven't really had any real research experience. You probably have a much different idea what the discipline is than what political science actually is in reality.

 

My advice? Forget the Ph.D. applications, or any applications for that matter, and do the independent research, do an honours thesis, maybe try to get an RA position, maybe take some methods classes, and read a lot of literature before you graduate. There is no rush and I think you should learn what political science is really about before you go ahead and start applying to programs. 

[karitha]

I second that advice. There is no need to rush, and if you are not 100% certain that a political science PhD is for you--based on a lot of research into what it involves and some serious thinking about why you want to do it--you will probably not put together a very good application and if you go, you will be more likely to doubt whether you want to be there when the going gets tough.

 

I have been thinking about applying to PhD programs since I was in undergrad--six years ago. I finally jumped this year, and I'm so glad I waited as long as I did. I've built up a lot of other experience and knowledge that helped me feel confident that this is what I want to do and put together a much, much, much better application than I could have six years ago or even 2-3 years ago.

 

I suggest trying to get involved in some research, getting some work experience, and then potentially going for a master's unless you are sure that you want to try to end up in academia.

Edited February 27, 2015 by karitha

[PrincipalAgent]

In getting an idea of what political science research is and what you would be doing in a PhD program, I encourage you to check out the articles in American Journal of Political Science, International Organization, American Political Science Review, and the Journal of Politics. If that's the type of stuff you're interested in learning more about, then the PhD might be the right option. If not, then perhaps a masters in something more public policy or professional oriented might be a better fit. 

[deleteacct]

Nope not currently in a program, starting Fall 2015. That's why the whole application process is still fresh in my head and I still get nightmares (jk). 

 

I would say with an honors thesis there's an end result---usually a longish paper that could serve very well as a writing sample. For my independent study, I mostly searched through data bases and turned in a 7 page paper at the end of the semester, so not nearly long enough. Basically I would say one is more structured than the other. 

 

What field of Poli Sci are you interested in? That'll determine how important quantitative skills are, although it's helpful to have math background for all of them. GRE math was really annoying for me, and I basically sucked at it (most definitely the worst part of my application). Since you haven't taken math in a few years, definitely try to get a good quant score, because that'll basically be the only way they can measure you in that aspect. 

 

I haven't really narrowed it down yet to any specific field that I'm solely interested in -- but the fields I enjoy most would be American Politics, Comparative Politics, International Relations, or Public Policy. One of those I would eventually narrow it down to. If Political Theory was a lucrative field, I would 100% go for that but I understand that it is not.

 

 

Well political science is a heavy math field (unless you go into theory - but there are no jobs for that), so if you don't like math then you will not like political science. 

 

I really urge you to tread with caution. Judging by your posts, you haven't really had any real research experience. You probably have a much different idea what the discipline is than what political science actually is in reality.

 

My advice? Forget the Ph.D. applications, or any applications for that matter, and do the independent research, do an honours thesis, maybe try to get an RA position, maybe take some methods classes, and read a lot of literature before you graduate. There is no rush and I think you should learn what political science is really about before you go ahead and start applying to programs. 

 

I know there is math involved, I don't particularly enjoy it but that doesn't mean I can't do well in the field, right? Yeah I haven't had any real research experience yet which is why I'm going to do the independent research and honors thesis the following quarter, do you suggest I wait out this year (even though I'll be graduating from UCSD) and if I still want to get a PhD in Political Science, than apply next year (would that mean I'd have to apply at the end of next year?)

 

I second that advice. There is no need to rush, and if you are not 100% certain that a political science PhD is for you--based on a lot of research into what it involves and some serious thinking about why you want to do it--you will probably not put together a very good application and if you go, you will be more likely to doubt whether you want to be there when the going gets tough.

 

I have been thinking about applying to PhD programs since I was in undergrad--six years ago. I finally jumped this year, and I'm so glad I waited as long as I did. I've built up a lot of other experience and knowledge that helped me feel confident that this is what I want to do and put together a much, much, much better application than I could have six years ago or even 2-3 years ago.

 

I suggest trying to get involved in some research, getting some work experience, and then potentially going for a master's unless you are sure that you want to try to end up in academia.

 

Same as the above post, I'll definitely be doing an independent research + honors thesis the next two quarters, I just have a feeling that a PhD is more for me versus Law School.

[gr22]

I haven't really narrowed it down yet to any specific field that I'm solely interested in -- but the fields I enjoy most would be American Politics, Comparative Politics, International Relations, or Public Policy. One of those I would eventually narrow it down to. If Political Theory was a lucrative field, I would 100% go for that but I understand that it is not.

 

I agree with the posters above. You are probably best off taking some time before applying. When you do apply, you will have to articulate your research interests in a particular topic (or set of topics) within one of these fields (or sometimes at the intersection of a couple). What you've listed here is most of Political Science. As PrinicipalAgent suggested, you should read Political Science journals. Read as many articles as you can make time for and after getting an idea of what these fields look like, pick the topics/approaches/authors that most interested you and delve into them in greater detail. Read other articles by the same author. Read the articles they cited. It's a slow process, but a necessary process for figuring out where you want to make contributions to the field (not to mention, it's not a bad idea to make sure you aren't bored by endless reading of this type before deciding to go to grad school).

 

Also, you mention that two of your Political Science professors are "supposedly well-known" in Political Science. Look up their CVs and read their articles too. Familiarity with their work/areas of study can't hurt your chances of landing an RA gig with one of them.

 

When you're reading the articles, it may be tempting to skip/skim over the methodology sections to focus on the theory, results, and conclusions. I would recommend really taking your time with the methods sections and trying to understand exactly what the author is doing to test their hypotheses and why. At first, some of it will probably make you feel like you are listening to the Charlie Brown teacher, but some of it will stick, and it will start to make more sense after a while.

[deleteacct]

I agree with the posters above. You are probably best off taking some time before applying. When you do apply, you will have to articulate your research interests in a particular topic (or set of topics) within one of these fields (or sometimes at the intersection of a couple). What you've listed here is most of Political Science. As PrinicipalAgent suggested, you should read Political Science journals. Read as many articles as you can make time for and after getting an idea of what these fields look like, pick the topics/approaches/authors that most interested you and delve into them in greater detail. Read other articles by the same author. Read the articles they cited. It's a slow process, but a necessary process for figuring out where you want to make contributions to the field (not to mention, it's not a bad idea to make sure you aren't bored by endless reading of this type before deciding to go to grad school).

 

Also, you mention that two of your Political Science professors are "supposedly well-known" in Political Science. Look up their CVs and read their articles too. Familiarity with their work/areas of study can't hurt your chances of landing an RA gig with one of them.

 

When you're reading the articles, it may be tempting to skip/skim over the methodology sections to focus on the theory, results, and conclusions. I would recommend really taking your time with the methods sections and trying to understand exactly what the author is doing to test their hypotheses and why. At first, some of it will probably make you feel like you are listening to the Charlie Brown teacher, but some of it will stick, and it will start to make more sense after a while.

 

This is excellent information, thank you so much!

 

Do you think you can post some links for me that you might think I should read and try to go over -- if possible, articles within any of the fields I listed as being interesting to me.

[PrincipalAgent]

I recommend going through some of the graduate-level syllabi for IR, CP, and AP to get an idea of what the seminal articles/books are in each of those fields and what you'll be getting yourself into.

[victorydance]

I know there is math involved, I don't particularly enjoy it but that doesn't mean I can't do well in the field, right? Yeah I haven't had any real research experience yet which is why I'm going to do the independent research and honors thesis the following quarter, do you suggest I wait out this year (even though I'll be graduating from UCSD) and if I still want to get a PhD in Political Science, than apply next year (would that mean I'd have to apply at the end of next year?)

 

Well, if you don't like it you probably won't like spending hours collecting data and running regressions as part of your research. That's all. 

 

Yes, I suggest you wait. There is no rush on when to apply, it's better to be sure of it then spend a lot of time and money on applications, furthermore perhaps accept an offer of acceptance hastily. 

 

You said you are interested in "IR, CP, and American" sub-fields but that is basically the whole field of political science. This is a problem that I was a bit concerned about and it has been reinforced. You are not ready yet. Think about it, you would be competing with applicants such as myself who already have research experience and have clearly defined research interests in a particularly sub-field and sub-sub-fields. 

 

So I agree with others you need to read some literature, actually a lot of literature. Check out the syllabuses of some graduate classes, both in IR and comparative (American politics is basically just comparative politics but only focusing on the US). Read canon literature in the sub-fields (for comparative politics look at books like Political Order and Changing Societies (Huntington), Patterns of Democracy (Ljiphart), Political Man (Lipset), The Civic Culture (Almond and Verba), Polyarchy (Dahl), Patterns of Democratic Consolidation (Linz and Stepan), Building Democratic Institutions (Mainwaring and Scully)). 

 

I also strongly advise you enroll in a quantitative methods class. If you can't hack it or you don't like these types of classes there is no point whatsoever in applying to graduate schools because your coursework and research will heavily draw on these methods and techniques. 

Edited February 28, 2015 by victorydance

[deleteacct]

Well, if you don't like it you probably won't like spending hours collecting data and running regressions as part of your research. That's all. 

 

Yes, I suggest you wait. There is no rush on when to apply, it's better to be sure of it then spend a lot of time and money on applications, furthermore perhaps accept an offer of acceptance hastily. 

 

You said you are interested in "IR, CP, and American" sub-fields but that is basically the whole field of political science. This is a problem that I was a bit concerned about and it has been reinforced. You are not ready yet. Think about it, you would be competing with applicants such as myself who already have research experience and have clearly defined research interests in a particularly sub-field and sub-sub-fields. 

 

So I agree with others you need to read some literature, actually a lot of literature. Check out the syllabuses of some graduate classes, both in IR and comparative (American politics is basically just comparative politics but only focusing on the US). Read canon literature in the sub-fields (for comparative politics look at books like Political Order and Changing Societies (Huntington), Patterns of Democracy (Ljiphart), Political Man (Lipset), The Civic Culture (Almond and Verba), Polyarchy (Dahl), Patterns of Democratic Consolidation (Linz and Stepan), Building Democratic Institutions (Mainwaring and Scully)). 

 

I also strongly advise you enroll in a quantitative methods class. If you can't hack it or you don't like these types of classes there is no point whatsoever in applying to graduate schools because your coursework and research will heavily draw on these methods and techniques. 

 

Thanks for the advice. I already had a huge number of important books/texts regarding the different sub-fields of Political Science on my "to read" list, and I will definitely be adding the ones you mentioned.

 

Honestly I am just trying to figure out what path is more beneficial for me, and the more I think about it, for whatever reason, a PhD in Political Science seems like something I want more than a JD.

[Espoir2015]

Although math is important, and there is certainly no way around learning quantitative methods, there are people who have made a career by using only qualitative methods In fact, some of the most influential international relations scholars (Finnemore, Sikkink, Alex Wendt, Robert Cox, Barry Buzan, Peter  Katzenstein, John Ruggie) rarely use quant. Also in other subfields like CP, (Paul Staniland) qualitative methods are important and can bring you a long way. 

 

So there is certainly more to political science than just number crunching, also in other fields like CP. Despite the growing sophistication of quantitative methods, I have the impression that scholars that try to make strong arguments about causal mechanisms need to be able to use qualitative and ethnographic methods too. (although a solid knowledge of math will make things way easier)

 

In any case, the method you prefer should not determine the questions you ask. You should try to figure out what interest you most. Read some PS literature, and maybe spend some time working. This will change your perspective on the discipline and help you to ask relevant questions

 

P.s. This comes from a person using both qualitative and quantitative methods

[angellily0330]

Thanks for the advice. I already had a huge number of important books/texts regarding the different sub-fields of Political Science on my "to read" list, and I will definitely be adding the ones you mentioned.

 

Honestly I am just trying to figure out what path is more beneficial for me, and the more I think about it, for whatever reason, a PhD in Political Science seems like something I want more than a JD.

From what you mentioned you wanted to work in, a political science degree would be more useful than a JD. However, so is work experience if you are thinking of going into government or a non-academic environment. 

[deleteacct]

Can I ask how (and when) all of you came to an understanding of exactly what field of Political Science you wanted to specialize in? Especially when there are just so many interesting sub-fields ...

[Bubandis]

Can I ask how (and when) all of you came to an understanding of exactly what field of Political Science you wanted to specialize in? Especially when there are just so many interesting sub-fields ...

Doing an MA really helped me in this respect....

[angellily0330]

Can I ask how (and when) all of you came to an understanding of exactly what field of Political Science you wanted to specialize in? Especially when there are just so many interesting sub-fields ...

For me it was research...and mentally eliminating the ones I had no interest in and going from there. My research allowed me the chance to do lots of reading, searching, and writing on a topic that I wound up loving (IR--I won't get into the specifics here). As for eliminating the fields I didn't like, I had taken classes on American and Theory, and it just didn't work for me. For me it's easier to figure out what I DON'T want and then narrow it down from there. That might help. 

 

And I echo previous posters when I say read as much as you can, especially if you have more than two sub-fields to cover. 

[esotericish]

I'll also just throw this out there: unless you can get a funded or free MA (scholarships), don't do it if you want to go into the working world. You'd be much better served in terms of time and money by doing internships in the field you're interested in -- even if it's multiple, unpaid ones. An unpaid internship is better than taking on loans, and you can always apply for paid jobs while you're there! This is based on my experience (with an MA) working in DC -- and from what many others will tell you with a similar experience.

[deleteacct]

Another thing I'd like to add and ask for insight:

 

The only math-related classes I have taken while at UCSD are -- Political Inquiry and Statistics using SPSS (A+), Pre-Calculus (B+), and Intro To Formal Logic which was a class on formal notation, formal reasoning, truth tables, and proofs (B+)

 

Would this be bad for me in regards to applying to a PhD and having a relatively low amount of method type classes?

Edited March 2, 2015 by Armo Mamba

[rwillh11]

Doing an MA really helped me in this respect....

this for me as well. I would have been hopeless applying without having done an MA first. If you can find a way to pay for it, its absolutely worth it. 

[rwillh11]

Another thing I'd like to add and ask for insight:

 

The only math-related classes I have taken while at UCSD are -- Political Inquiry and Statistics using SPSS (A+), Pre-Calculus (B+), and Intro To Formal Logic which was a class on formal notation, formal reasoning, truth tables, and proofs (B+)

 

Would this be bad for me in regards to applying to a PhD and having a relatively low amount of method type classes?

Not Fatal, but if you can take more, do so. All else equal, its always better to have another quant class. And if you have never done calculus before, I would highly recommend that. 

[esotericish]

Another thing I'd like to add and ask for insight:

 

The only math-related classes I have taken while at UCSD are -- Political Inquiry and Statistics using SPSS (A+), Pre-Calculus (B+), and Intro To Formal Logic which was a class on formal notation, formal reasoning, truth tables, and proofs (B+)

 

Would this be bad for me in regards to applying to a PhD and having a relatively low amount of method type classes?

 

That's more than I took, except I had calculus in high school, and I've been accepted to a handful of programs. I might be at a disadvantage when I actually start, though.

[deleteacct]

So you guys are saying I need to do some research and narrow down -- currently I'm heavily leaning towards IR or CP.

 

But what I am confused about is this -

 

When applying to the PhD program, we already need to know not only what sub-field we are interested in, but also exactly what topic and region we want to research and do the dissertation on?

 

In addition -- if anyone can recommend me MUST READ books/articles in the fields of IR and CP so I can get a true sense of what direction I want to head, that'd be great.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Armo Mamba