When you get the idea that you're their last resort (on the waitlist)....

[TXInstrument11]

So, I just recently landed myself on a waitlist following an interview. 

 

I bombed my interview. It's unambiguous. It was undoubtedly a contributor to my current predicament and it's my fault.

 

-but I'm still having trouble not taking this personally.

 

From my POI's fabulously terse emails [i mean, wow, what skill in saying so little!] and general demeanor during my interview, I have gotten a pretty solid idea that I'm their last resort.

 

Now, since my interview, I've been accepted to 2 other universities with funding, both of which are much more highly ranked institutions in their respective fields. My pride is telling me to respond with an equally fabulous email politely telling my POI to stick it, but my rational side is telling me that's stupid because my funding isn't 100% spelled out at this point. 

 

I also really, really, like their work more than anybody - so there's that - but their communication style (or lack thereof) is truly driving me crazy, I feel like they hate me, and I am insulted that I'm very clearly their dead-end option. It's not like I'm the best candidate ever, but it stings.

 

Due to all this, I probably wouldn't even accept their offer anyway unless they could really kick UIUC's funding by a large margin. I also suspect that they, perhaps out of warped sense of charity, are simply stringing me along with a "soft rejection" in their own icy way.

 

 

 

Has anyone else been in this situation? I probably won't send the passive aggressive reply I've drawn up out of a sense of self-preservation, but it is so tempting....

Edited March 5, 2015 by TXInstrument11

[yellowmint]

Not quite the same but I can relate to those passive-aggressive post interview urges which I also don't act on out of self preservation. But it is a bit fustrating. And that's why there is beer. And friends.

[TXInstrument11]

Not quite the same but I can relate to those passive-aggressive post interview urges which I also don't act on out of self preservation. But it is a bit fustrating. And that's why there is beer. And friends.

I don't have many friends, but I do have a lot of beer. 

[MathCat]

It sounds like you wouldn't have a good personal fit with this POI. That is something to consider, if you do get an offer. I think that is more important than research interest fit. In any case, definitely wait until you have formal funding offers from your other programs before doing anything.

[TXInstrument11]

It sounds like you wouldn't have a good personal fit with this POI. That is something to consider, if you do get an offer. I think that is more important than research interest fit. In any case, definitely wait until you have formal funding offers from your other programs before doing anything.

That's a good point. Our philosophies on how to apply the research on psychopathy and aggression appear to conflict as well. She takes more of a treatment and prevention stance while I tend to side more with detection and CJ.

 

She's hard to read, but seemed to edge toward negative when I spoke with her. No ice was broken. My attempts to break the tension were like pulling teeth. It was the worst and most stressful interview I've ever done - and I basically breezed through 6 back-to-back interviews at Wyoming.

 

FWIW, another applicant to Alabama who interviewed with her (but had another POI) said she was a tough interview. 

Edited March 5, 2015 by TXInstrument11

[yellowmint]

I don't have many friends, but I do have a lot of beer.

Best quote of the month. Thank you. I lmfao'ed. Made my crappy day so much better (I just got a very painful rejection....).

Anyway, you must be a great candidate because you got into Urbana psychology - congrats!

[TXInstrument11]

Best quote of the month. Thank you. I lmfao'ed. Made my crappy day so much better (I just got a very painful rejection....).

Anyway, you must be a great candidate because you got into Urbana psychology - congrats!

Thank you.   I still can't believe I got in there. I actually entertained the thought for a while that my POI accidentally emailed the wrong person and I reread the email compulsively.

 

I'm also happy I was able to cheer you up a bit. Rejection is the pits....

 

I've been there with the painful rejection. I knew it was a bit of a reach, but Oregon put me in a dark place for a few days, and still kind of bums me out. I really liked the research of a lot of faculty there. Their 2% acceptance rate is depressing enough as it is too. 

 

I handled my MSU rejection rather poorly as well. With each new letter, I am surprised that the rejection stings as much as it does. You pick these schools with care and obsess over every detail of your application for hours - only to get a shitty form letter in the end.

[BeatrizBear]

That's a good point. Our philosophies on how to apply the research on psychopathy and aggression appear to conflict as well. She takes more of a treatment and prevention stance while I tend to side more with detection and CJ.

 

She's hard to read, but seemed to edge toward negative when I spoke with her. No ice was broken. My attempts to break the tension were like pulling teeth. It was the worst and most stressful interview I've ever done - and I basically breezed through 6 back-to-back interviews at Wyoming.

 

FWIW, another applicant to Alabama who interviewed with her (but had another POI) said she was a tough interview. 

 

I can relate. I can't tell if my current adviser hates me or if he's just a jerk and hates everyone. He's kind of socially awkward and gives off a vibe that you're taking up his time. He sends emails out when it's time to register for classes saying that unless it's an emergency, don't bother going to his office hours and just register for what you want. He's in charge of all of the students in my program so he's busy, but still man. I also can't forgive him because I was once passionate telling him about what I wanted to study and he looked at me blankly and told me to "calm down." So yeah, personality is very important. It can be impossible to work with someone who rubs you the wrong way. My thesis director and I got on so great because he was so nice and gave so much feedback so I got a lot done and was motivated. When I had to visit my program adviser, I wanted to jump into a freezing lake just to have hypothermia as an excuse not to see him.

Edited March 5, 2015 by BeatrizBear

[TXInstrument11]

When I had to visit my program adviser, I wanted to jump into a freezing lake just to have hypothermia as an excuse not to see him.

This! I feel like I'm going to have flashbacks of my horrible interview for years to come. 

 

I totally get where you're coming from. Not only is my Alabama POI like this, but so is my undergrad adviser, so you sound like a kindred spirit.

Edited March 5, 2015 by TXInstrument11

[TheMercySeat]

That is so awful

I feel your pain-- it's frustrating to put so much time and energy into something and to just have it crap out. I personally feel like it's irresponsible for universities to reject more than, let's say, 4 people per slot because traveling out to these places requires substantial financial commitment and working around work/school schedules.

I don't know what to make of it when interviewers are aggressive-- I can't tell if it is a stress test or what. One POI was kinda aggressive towards me, as if he was taking it out on me because I have more applied experience than the preferred experimental experience. It was pretty ridiculous because (1) it is on him if he didn't read my CV thoroughly before inviting me out, and (2) what cost me two days of work cost him maybe an hour of his time, if that, and (3) I'd argue that the stakes are higher on applied work, and there's less room for error than seen in most pure experimental research (my primary project is a multimillion dollar federal grant with real world implications-- if my team botches it, bad things happen)

This whole process is ridiculous. Try not to let it drag you down-- sometimes people apply for one, two, or even three years without receiving interviews, let alone an offer, and especially at least two offers.

Edited March 5, 2015 by TheMercySeat

[TheMercySeat]

Also wanted to mention (as a fellow psych geek!):

I had a program I interviewed at tell me "PS, we probably don't have funding for a student at all."

Another place I interviewed at- an R1- has only one professor accepting students due to financial constraints.

It really helps me make sense of rejection when I consider exactly how terrible the financial situation is at some of these universities.

[TXInstrument11]

I had a program I interviewed at tell me "PS, we probably don't have funding for a student at all."

This happened to FantasticalDevPsych too. Really shitty if they ask for applicants to show up on their own dime or taking off of work. 

[TXInstrument11]

One POI was kinda aggressive towards me, as if he was taking it out on me because I have more applied experience than the preferred experimental experience. 

That's so weird. At my uni, I'm pretty sure applied experience would actually be preferred, but then again, my department is dominated by Human Factors/I-O. Damned if you do damned if you don't. You just can't please some people. 

[FantasticalDevPsych]

Also wanted to mention (as a fellow psych geek!):

I had a program I interviewed at tell me "PS, we probably don't have funding for a student at all."

Another place I interviewed at- an R1- has only one professor accepting students due to financial constraints.

It really helps me make sense of rejection when I consider exactly how terrible the financial situation is at some of these universities.

Agreed that it does but it still hurts. Some people at my undergrad (R1 and top 15) are mentioning that it's becoming much more common to have been a lab manager before being accepted, which is probably partly due to this as well.

This happened to FantasticalDevPsych too. Really shitty if they ask for applicants to show up on their own dime or taking off of work.

Yes it did. And I think it shut me out. I found out at interview that I was probably the student my POI would take if there was funding as I was the only one there for them. Found out from my thank you email that there was probably no funding. At least I'm supposed to receive reimbursement but still. It's nice to feel wanted though (currently using as some of my motivation to try again) but missing class (undergrad) was no fun.

[TheMercySeat]

That's so weird. At my uni, I'm pretty sure applied experience would actually be preferred, but then again, my department is dominated by Human Factors/I-O. Damned if you do damned if you don't. You just can't please some people.

That's probably why! I made the mistake of applying to programs that do mock jury research, which warrants a lot of "make believe factors" (make believe juries, make believe case transcripts, ect.). The aggressive POI made it abundantly clear to me that he doesn't care at all about 'the real world.'

[TheMercySeat]

Agreed that it does but it still hurts. Some people at my undergrad (R1 and top 15) are mentioning that it's becoming much more common to have been a lab manager before being accepted, which is probably partly due to this as well.

Yes it did. And I think it shut me out. I found out at interview that I was probably the student my POI would take if there was funding as I was the only one there for them. Found out from my thank you email that there was probably no funding. At least I'm supposed to receive reimbursement but still. It's nice to feel wanted though (currently using as some of my motivation to try again) but missing class (undergrad) was no fun.

That is AWFUL!!!

The one that told me they have no $ was my number one program, and they implied that they will consider accepting a student without funding. I keep telling myself that the inability to afford a student is indicative of deeper systemic issues, and that it is for the best I don't go there-- For example, who wants to go to a program that lacks conference support or lacks the resources to present students with as many learning opportunities. Looking at it that way helps me a lot, and I hope it helps you

[FantasticalDevPsych]

That is AWFUL!!!

The one that told me they have no $ was my number one program, and they implied that they will consider accepting a student without funding. I keep telling myself that the inability to afford a student is indicative of deeper systemic issues, and that it is for the best I don't go there-- For example, who wants to go to a program that lacks conference support or lacks the resources to present students with as many learning opportunities. Looking at it that way helps me a lot, and I hope it helps you

 

It is AWFUL. I had a good cry for most of the day that it happened on. I told a friend (a current grad student in my area) and my undergrad advisor (couldn't escape this one as she helped write the email I sent to check my status) and they were both very supportive, giving me advice and how to improve my application and what to do in the year I now have nothing to do in and telling me to not give up.

To have gotten so close and to be rejected because of that is so difficult but I'm trying to use the fact that I did get that close as motivation to try again. I'm an undergrad so I'll be looking for a lab manager job and trying to publish one (if not both) of my undergrad theses before next application season.

 

That's not too good either... It does help a little to think of it like that. Mine was one where they seek to fund everyone so I'm expecting flat out rejection, not an unfunded offer.

Edited March 5, 2015 by FantasticalDevPsych

[TXInstrument11]

I keep telling myself that the inability to afford a student is indicative of deeper systemic issues, and that it is for the best I don't go there-- For example, who wants to go to a program that lacks conference support or lacks the resources to present students with as many learning opportunities. Looking at it that way helps me a lot, and I hope it helps you

This is true. Not only does lack of funding directly affect you, but it also indicates something about the state of the department and the research money (not) flowing in there. 

[TheMercySeat]

 

That's not too good either... It does help a little to think of it like that. Mine was one where they seek to fund everyone so I'm expecting flat out rejection, not an unfunded offer.

 

 

I'm sorry, I phrased this wrong!

 

I meant to say that a program that cannot even afford to fund a student probably is lacking in other resources-- i.e., if they magically received enough money to take on a student, chances are that the program will not be in any shape to provide remotely decent conference support or have resources to cover other student needs. 

[TheMercySeat]

This is true. Not only does lack of funding directly affect you, but it also indicates something about the state of the department and the research money (not) flowing in there. 

 

 

^This.

 

I feel like I see the writing on the wall with a lot of these programs :x

[FantasticalDevPsych]

I'm sorry, I phrased this wrong!

 

I meant to say that a program that cannot even afford to fund a student probably is lacking in other resources-- i.e., if they magically received enough money to take on a student, chances are that the program will not be in any shape to provide remotely decent conference support or have resources to cover other student needs.

Ah ok! I definitely understand that point now!

This is true. Not only does lack of funding directly affect you, but it also indicates something about the state of the department and the research money (not) flowing in there.

So true as everywhere (across states and different fields) seems to have funding problems right now.

It all seems to go down to one point: funding right now is really hurting, everywhere.

[TheMercySeat]

Ah ok! I definitely understand that point now!

So true as everywhere (across states and different fields) seems to have funding problems right now.

It all seems to go down to one point: funding right now is really hurting, everywhere.

Valid!

as somebody who primarily applied to experimental psych programs, it seems like the interdisciplinary/applied ones are not hurting nearly as much as traditional experimental psychology programs.

[BeatrizBear]

This! I feel like I'm going to have flashbacks of my horrible interview for years to come. 

 

I totally get where you're coming from. Not only is my Alabama POI like this, but so is my undergrad adviser, so you sound like a kindred spirit.

In my undergrad my adviser wasn't unfriendly, but he didn't make an effort to make a connection with any students. He didn't even know my name since we barely saw each other. I swear, if my name wasn't on the forms he got every time he saw me, he'd be like ?????. But really, my MA adviser was the one that crushed me. I'm kind of intense because I tend to make a lot of gestures with my hands and I get excited easily. Having him tell me to "calm down" like that really, really humiliated me and I never again spoke to him about my interests. My thesis director became more of my adviser than that guy.

[Chiqui74]

I find myself on a waiting list too.  For many reasons, including that I did not want to be anyone's last resort, I have decided to accept an offer at another school without waiting on the waiting list results.  The school I accepted has done a very good job at courting me, and the faculty have been nothing but enthusiastic about having me. It helps that it was one of my top choices, but it's not all that matters.  The waiting list people can take me or leave me, which is definitely off putting.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Chiqui74

[TXInstrument11]

I find myself on a waiting list too.  For many reasons, including that I did not want to be anyone's last resort, I have decided to accept an offer at another school without waiting on the waiting list results.  The school I accepted has done a very good job at courting me, and the faculty have been nothing but enthusiastic about having me. It helps that it was one of my top choices, but it's not all that matters.  The waiting list people can take me or leave me, which is definitely off putting.

That is pretty much my attitude in a nut shell. My POI at UIUC has been very communicative and friendly and the department as a whole seems very nice. Why should I give others who treat me poorly and probably don't want me as their student the time of day?