Terminal MA: Thesis or Non-thesis

[Duns Eith]

[edited]

I recently got accepted to another MA. So there's a third dimension here. I don't think this additional one has an option for a non-thesis track, they have a decent course diversity, yet they have offered the least amount of stipend.

Edited March 14, 2015 by Turretin

[Duns Eith]

I stripped down a personal collection of spreadsheets and reduced it to this. It should have all the personal information removed.

 

That said, below is a comparison (Excel/.xlsx) of the MA programs I am looking at

https://itmb.co/7nnmi

 

It includes:

financial package comparisons -- I will post the funding survey as well, if it is helpful

placement records -- how many graduates apply, how many applicants are accepted, where are they accepted (what is the rank of the acceptance schools)

program requirements -- how the program is structured, what courses are offered, whether they have graduate latin courses available, etc.

 

The above link is good for a whole year, but I am really interested in it becoming a template for a much larger database if we had hosting for it.

 

 

P.S.

Sources:

Their respective websites

Philosophical Gourmet reports

http://www.philosophynews.com/post/2013/10/20/Graduate-School-in-Philosophy-Terminal-MA-Programs-In-Philosophy.aspx

Trulia, hotpads, craigslist, and local apt listings

Edited March 16, 2015 by Turretin

[Between Fields]

Think of it this way: you're going to have to write a dissertation if you get into a PhD program. The only academic experience that even comes close to that is a master's thesis. Sitting down and proving to yourself that you can produce a document like that and then have it go through committee review can help you decide if more academics are right for you; it's done that for a lot of my peers. I don't think I would be ready for a PhD if I hadn't had that practice sitting down and actually working out an extended argument on a topic I'm passionate about. Plus, you'll never have the same research freedom on a seminar paper that you would on an independent project like a thesis.

 

Whichever program you end up at, I hope you take the thesis track. Of course, YMMV and I'm in English, not Philosophy.

[Duns Eith]

Thanks for your wisdom, Between Fields. That was basically my major argument for the thesis, though now I feel as though I have landed on the other side. As I understand it, the benefit from a thesis is outweighed by its cost (and the alternatives).

 

I can't really use a thesis as a writing sample, both because of the difficulty in condensing it and because of the timing (I start the thesis in the Fall, applications are due over winter break, finish the thesis in Feb/march). If I used a draft, it will be nowhere near as polished as a writing sample should be. A polished term paper (from all the grad students I have contacted, both at thesis and non-thesis track schools) is a much better fit for writing sample.

 

Not writing a thesis will mean freeing up time to polish term papers so that they can be used as writing samples, proto-publications, and conference papers/talks. This fact alone gives me hesitation to go the thesis track. I consider it the single most important factor for doing non-thesis.

 

Lastly, thesis vs non-thesis have no significant difference in acceptance/placement into PhD. If there is a difference, it isn't bore out in the data with any statistical significance. Call me pragmatic, but that just suggests to me the bias is not on the AdCom side, but in the perception of the student.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Turretin

[sidebysondheim]

Looks like this topic was brought up at Leiter.

[Duns Eith]

Looks like this topic was brought up at Leiter.

Thanks!

[matt79156]

Looks like this topic was brought up at Leiter.

 

The general sentiment over there seems to be against the MA thesis. While it will likely make you a better philosopher, it will distract from putting together the best possible PHD application.

[Cecinestpasunphilosophe]

The general sentiment over there seems to be against the MA thesis. While it will likely make you a better philosopher, it will distract from putting together the best possible PHD application.

 

Which is as messed up an incentive structure as one could imagine...

[Glasperlenspieler]

Which is as messed up an incentive structure as one could imagine...

 

Yeah, Derek Bowman's comment was for me perhaps the most striking:

 

"This highlights the way that many of the responses to this question have been at cross purposes. Is the main point of terminal MAs to help people prepare for PhD admission? Then it seems clear that the thesis isn't an essential (or often even effective) way of doing that. But of course there are many potential educational and philosophical values that the thesis requirement might help to promote. And of course these same conflicting purposes just reappear for those students who do move on to PhD programs. Many things are good for one's philosophical education which can distract from advancing one's philosophical career."

[Dumbnamechange]

I know this is a stupidly obvious point, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned it and it seems worth considering:

Some great students just suck at exams, and this seems especially true in philosophy, which is enormously ill-suited for the format. So if you're deciding between thesis v. exam options, it might be better to go for the thesis (in some cases) just so long as you aren't a test-taker type. (But then again, I don't know what MA exams are like; if they're easy A's, this is a moot point.) Right?

[Establishment]

I know this is a stupidly obvious point, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned it and it seems worth considering:

Some great students just suck at exams, and this seems especially true in philosophy, which is enormously ill-suited for the format. So if you're deciding between thesis v. exam options, it might be better to go for the thesis (in some cases) just so long as you aren't a test-taker type. (But then again, I don't know what MA exams are like; if they're easy A's, this is a moot point.) Right?

 

It'll depend on the program. I've heard the NIU exams are incredibly difficult. My understanding is that one takes three exams over different areas, and no one has ever passed all three exams in their first try, and that it takes two or three sittings.

 

On the other hand, exams at certain other MA programs are fairly trivial.

 

EDIT: Looking at the NIU website, their MA requirements seem to say differently (one exam, two chances to pass). So maybe they've changed it recently.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Establishment