Enviro MPA/MPP rankings and questions

[kabutar]

Hey all,

I really need some help here! I'm really trying to sort out which programs to apply to or which I should be looking at. I want to do an MPA/MPP degree with as much of a concentration as possible in environmental policy and affairs and eventually end up working either at a national or international level in policy generation or in a think tank, etc.

Here's my dilemma: the top enviro policy rankings are somewhat different from the top public policy rankings. e.g. from the US News rankings:

Public Policy:

• 1 Syracuse University
  2 Harvard University
  2 Indiana University--Bloomington
  4 Princeton University
  4 University of Georgia
  6 University of California--Berkeley
  7 University of Kansas
  7 University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
  7 University of Southern California
  10 Carnegie Mellon University (Heinz)
  10 Duke University
  10 New York University
  10 University of Chicago
  
  Environmental Policy & Management:
  
  • 1 Indiana University--Bloomington
    2 Syracuse University
    3 Duke University
    4 University of California--Berkeley
    4 University of Washington
    6 University of Michigan--Ann Arbor
    7 Harvard University
    8 University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill
    9 Columbia University
    10 Carnegie Mellon University (Heinz)
    10 University of Wisconsin--Madison

For example Princeton isn't even on the enviro list, but obviously WWS is one of the top in the country, and they do have an enviro certificate (the STEP program)... so when deciding which schools I want to apply to, should I be considering the overall school reputation OR the specialty reputation? If I want a school that gives me great contacts and a great reputation to work at a high level in enviro policy would I get the same experience and quality of education (and alumni, contacts, etc) going to some place like Indiana or Syracuse which are top ranked in enviro but don't necessarily have the same rep as Princeton etc?

I guess I'm asking if the university isn't a big name overall, would it still be considered on par with the other big schools for that particular field? Or would going to Princeton give me a reputation that wouldn't necessarily be matched by graduating from a school that's top-ranked for enviro, but is still not Princeton?

Also, how well are Indiana and Syracuse really regarded? I was rather surprised to see them ranked at or near the top to be honest - I'd never even expected Indiana U to be anywhere NEAR this list, for example.

And yes, I know name isn't everything, etc... but I'd really like to get an indication of how things are viewed. ESPECIALLY since I'm Canadian and would like to come back here or go overseas eventually so am not sure Indiana or Syracuse etc would carry the same recognition that Duke or Princeton would.

[wooldogg]

I started a similar thread about a month ago. You might find it helpful:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18539

I have similar questions about tradeoffs between overall strong MPP programs and more environmental-specific programs. My impression is that, if you're really keen on an elite DC position, a place like KSG or WWS is going to get you further than Indiana or Syracuse.

You might take a look at the "Public Policy Analysis" rankings also, as those are slightly different from the Public Affairs rankings and maybe more appropriate depending on your interests.

[kabutar]

Thanks! I do remember reading your post but ended up a bit more confused lol as one of the posters was saying that everyone he works with seemed to be coming out of Nicholas at Duke / SPEA at Indiana. I couldn't tell however whether going to HKS or WWS and taking their enviro specialization would eventually lead to a disadvantage over the even more specialized Indiana/Duke degrees.

On that note... how do you think Duke would compare? I tend to think it's sort of the best of both worlds since it has a fairly good name + strong enviro program - am I off base with that?

[wooldogg]

Regarding Duke: that's my impression too. Solid name, solid environmental program. The dual degree looks good.

[greendiplomat]

I think I posted this on another thread as well, but I think it's important to note whether these programs are strong (or not) in domestic or international environmental policy (or both). Anyone have any insight on this? How does Duke do in terms of international environmental policy? What are some other good schools for international?

I only know that Columbia's MIA program has an excellent selection of international environmental policy courses, mostly thanks to the Earth Institute (and I only know this because I do my undergrad here).

[kabutar]

I think I posted this on another thread as well, but I think it's important to note whether these programs are strong (or not) in domestic or international environmental policy (or both). Anyone have any insight on this? How does Duke do in terms of international environmental policy? What are some other good schools for international?

I only know that Columbia's MIA program has an excellent selection of international environmental policy courses, mostly thanks to the Earth Institute (and I only know this because I do my undergrad here).

Hmm, good point. I'd heard Columbia's enviro policy program isn't regarded that well however, but looking into international policy reputation or offerings is definitely something to think of especially since I'd like to work perhaps on an international level in the future. Thanks for the tip (Of course if anyone has any thoughts on this it would be great!)

[greendiplomat]

Hmm, good point. I'd heard Columbia's enviro policy program isn't regarded that well however, but looking into international policy reputation or offerings is definitely something to think of especially since I'd like to work perhaps on an international level in the future. Thanks for the tip (Of course if anyone has any thoughts on this it would be great!)

Oh, and I forgot to mention, Columbia's SIPA has 3 degrees that could be considered "environmental policy": the MIA with a policy concentration in Energy & Environment; the MPA with the same policy concentration; or the MPA in Environmental Science and Policy.

In my previous post, I was mainly talking about the MIA with environmental concentration (the course offerings in the field are really staggering), which, to my opinion, is highly regarded. The MPA-ESP is a 1-year intensive program that was created within the last decade or so, and, as most MPAs doesn't have as international of a focus (although I think it's more international than most MPAs). I think it's the latter that's not as highly regarded, just because it hasn't been around for that long. Just my 2 cents.

[Technocrat]

With regards to your suggestion that Columbia’s 1 year program is not as well regarded... I looked at all 3 programs offered by Columbia. I eventually chose the 1 year program. All three programs carry with them a great deal of prestige. Strictly speaking, the 1 year program is the better program for those focused on the science. It is also specifically geared towards those looking to go right back into the professional world. You have the same access to the same recourses as the other programs. You take the same number of credits with either the 1 or 2 year program and they are both very selective.

My recommendation to any prospective student would be to look at the curriculum and the professors and judge for yourself what program will fit you best.

[greendiplomat]

With regards to your suggestion that Columbia’s 1 year program is not as well regarded... I looked at all 3 programs offered by Columbia. I eventually chose the 1 year program. All three programs carry with them a great deal of prestige. Strictly speaking, the 1 year program is the better program for those focused on the science. It is also specifically geared towards those looking to go right back into the professional world. You have the same access to the same recourses as the other programs. You take the same number of credits with either the 1 or 2 year program and they are both very selective.

My recommendation to any prospective student would be to look at the curriculum and the professors and judge for yourself what program will fit you best.

Firstly, I'd just like to point out that I wrote this post over a year ago; whatever the case, there was no disrespect meant, if I came across that way.

I definitely agree with you that, as true when choosing to apply to any degree program, everyone needs to make their decision based on what makes the most sense to them, curricularly and otherwise. In that sense, I think the distinguishing characteristic of the 1-year MPA-ESP is its cohort model. Academically, this means that most of your classes will be required classes with an elective or two every semester, making this program produce more generalists in environmental policy than specialists in specific sub-fields of environmental policy. Also in terms of professional networks, the small class size means that you'll get to know your peers pretty quickly, but you have less time and opportunity to make connections with the rest of the SIPA crowd.

Based on the above, I think the program is wonderful for people who have a good degree of work experience, and who are going to SIPA to add an environmental and/or policy component to their expertise in a short amount of time. I personally decided against this program because my interests were such that I wanted the ability to take coursework in IR theory, climate policy, and advance microeconomics; I wasn't specifically interested in most of the science classes that you're required to take in your first semester as an MPA-ESP student. Again, that was a personal decision, and I don't discourage people from deciding that the MPA-ESP is the best choice for them.

That being said, there's no denying that the MPA-ESP program, while a great program, doesn't have the cachet or the massive alumni network that come with the decades of history that the two-year programs have. At the end of the day, though, degrees are like investments---the more they increase in desirability in the future, the more value possessing them has; I'm sure the MPA-ESP program will only grow in prestige and alumni network moving forward.

Edited February 27, 2011 by greendiplomat