Ranked MA or MA that satisfies interests?

[ineedwine]

I've accepted an offer at Boston College for the MA program, but I just received an email from NIU asking if I'm still interested and telling me they are highly confident I could get a one-year tuition waiver. I know NIU is highly regarded, but looking at their department I don't think my interests would be represented and I'd have to do a 4 hour examination on a specialization I probably won't care much about. BC has a lot of classes and in things that interest me (continental phil., phenomenology, philosophy of film, etc.) I know the goal for an MA is to become more well-rounded, but I also want to start exploring what I'd really like to specialize in in the future. BC also has a Russian language dept. and that seriously interests me, but the program/location is far more expensive and is not funded.

I think I've already made up my mind, but I thought I'd ask for your opinions. Thoughts?

[verificationist]

I know nothing about the places you've been admitted to except that NIU is a very good MA programme that can lead you to a top PhD. However, I'd just like to say the following: If I were in your situation I'd find out what happens in the Boston MA, because my worry is that since Boston has a PhD they won't take you seriously as an MA student. If they won't take you seriously then I'd say it's a no-brainer: you only real choice is NIU, since in the end you probably wouldn't even benefit from what is attracting you to Boston.

[philstudent1991]

I agree that an advantage of NIU is that they are MA only, whereas BC has PhD students that will be competing for your advisor's time. And, NIU is funded whereas BC is not. Even if your interests are a better match with BC than NIU, I don't think that overrides the fact that NIU is funded, well regarded and more geared toward placement (if that's your thing). So, I recommend NIU if that's a real possibility. 

[Page228]

You might look at which program has better placement for places you'd like to go after the MA. Has one program done significantly better in that arena? Also, this doesn't seem to get discussed much (perhaps because becoming a professor, if that is the goal, will likely require a lot geographical flexibility) but location can be important. If Boston would make you happy while DeKalb would make you miserable, that is something to consider. And if NIU's course offerings would leave you uninspired and unmotivated, then perhaps you've already made the correct choice.

Funding is nice though; there's no denying that. Outside of that, it's just weighing what set of pros and cons suits you best.

[Dumbnamechange]

I think you are definitely right in expecting NIU not to fit your more specific interests, however they do offer enough "neutral" classes to probably hold you over for two years (Ancient Ph., Ethics, etc.—it's not all "Kripke's Metaphysics," "Kripke's Implications for Ethics," "Phenomenology-but-only-insofar-as-it-relates-to-Kripke" etc.).

 

When I was deciding between a perfect-fit-but-less-funded program and a funded-but-less-fitting program, a couple of points turn me towards the latter, including:

1. Try to soberly check how courses you would realistically be taking that actually your interests at the fit-school anyway. Is that worth X amount of debt? 

2. Most MA students I talked to said they still learn the most from the studying they do outside of their program. Don't expect that simply because you'll be taking a few courses called "Philosophy of Your-Deepest-Life-Interests" that it will be your course-loads carrying your education for you: it' won't—your education only and always falls on you.

 

While I'm sympathetic with your dilemma (I was just there for the past couple months), I will say that looking back, I feel it was unfathomably crazy for me to consider going into debt for a masters.

 

Edit: I would qualify the entire NIU option on how likely it is that you actually will get the funding. The Grad. Director said the TA position was virtually guaranteed for me, but I wound up declining the acceptance altogether before I ever actually received the offer. I don't know how direct you can be, but absolutely make sure this is a certain thing.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Dumbnamechange

[ineedwine]

Thanks for the input everyone. I actually emailed Geoff Pynn at NIU and he replied himself that considering what he knows about my interests (critical theory, continental phil) BC would be a better fit for me. I had also asked him whether any of their students had gone on to Oregon (my dream school) and he said in his memory of the last five years none of them had. That doesn't mean I couldn't, but maybe a more pluralistic and continental background would make a difference.

 

Dumbnamechange, the advice about making sure the financial break would be a certain thing is great. I got the same from one of my letter writers, who told me to essentially balance the two schools and keep them both open until I know for sure. I also think location is important. What is exciting to me about BC is it's very close to a lot of other schools, including Harvard, which could mean opportunities to see lectures or attend conferences. Not to mention the abundance of libraries and the arts. NIU is close enough to Chicago, but still farther away than I would like. 

 

The only other thing, besides a cheaper price, that I know NIU would excel in that BC may not is close relationships with the professors, prompt response to emails, and knowing the students on a more personal level. All of which could be beneficial come letter-writer candidate time...but is that one thing enough of a reason? 

If I had to make a pros and cons list, the pros list for BC would be quite a bit longer than the pros list for NIU. 
Tough decisions are tough! 

[philstudent1991]

Thanks for the input everyone. I actually emailed Geoff Pynn at NIU and he replied himself that considering what he knows about my interests (critical theory, continental phil) BC would be a better fit for me. I had also asked him whether any of their students had gone on to Oregon (my dream school) and he said in his memory of the last five years none of them had. That doesn't mean I couldn't, but maybe a more pluralistic and continental background would make a difference.

 

Dumbnamechange, the advice about making sure the financial break would be a certain thing is great. I got the same from one of my letter writers, who told me to essentially balance the two schools and keep them both open until I know for sure. I also think location is important. What is exciting to me about BC is it's very close to a lot of other schools, including Harvard, which could mean opportunities to see lectures or attend conferences. Not to mention the abundance of libraries and the arts. NIU is close enough to Chicago, but still farther away than I would like. 

 

The only other thing, besides a cheaper price, that I know NIU would excel in that BC may not is close relationships with the professors, prompt response to emails, and knowing the students on a more personal level. All of which could be beneficial come letter-writer candidate time...but is that one thing enough of a reason? 

If I had to make a pros and cons list, the pros list for BC would be quite a bit longer than the pros list for NIU. 

Tough decisions are tough! 

And has BC placed at Oregon? 

 

Being in the same area as Harvard probably won't matter. You'll be so busy with your BC coursework that unless some class was an amazing fit and your professors recommended you take it, there just wouldn't be time. And does Harvard even let students audit? I'm not sure. 

 

It may be that you are independently wealthy, and if so that makes your decision easier. But to me, an unfunded MA, one where there are PhD students as well, has nothing on a well known, funded terminal MA, no matter what the interests are. It would be unwise to go into debt for an MA in philosophy. I can't imagine how much stress that would add to graduate school life. I would take the funded offer. 

[ineedwine]

And has BC placed at Oregon? 

 

Being in the same area as Harvard probably won't matter. You'll be so busy with your BC coursework that unless some class was an amazing fit and your professors recommended you take it, there just wouldn't be time. And does Harvard even let students audit? I'm not sure. 

 

It may be that you are independently wealthy, and if so that makes your decision easier. But to me, an unfunded MA, one where there are PhD students as well, has nothing on a well known, funded terminal MA, no matter what the interests are. It would be unwise to go into debt for an MA in philosophy. I can't imagine how much stress that would add to graduate school life. I would take the funded offer. 

What I more meant was events, not necessarily auditing courses. Either way, BC itself seems like an exciting place to be. NIU is not fully funded, it is a possible one-year tuition waiver. I'll be taking on debt at either school. BC also has on campus opportunities, positions in departments and so on. I will be applying for a position in Women and Gender studies that is 20 hours a week and provides a 15k a year stipend for two years. If I landed something like that, it would seriously reduce the amount of debt I'll need to take out. It is also not as if I will be supporting myself completely. I will be moving with my boyfriend, who will have a full time job and help support us financially. 

I just can't feel okay missing out on a lot of exciting opportunity to study things I really wanted to anyway (Russian language as the language requirement, for instance, philosophy of film as well.) Sure, I could study independently, but I thought being surrounded by like-minded individuals was part of the magic of getting a graduate degree. I have so far met two other future MA students at BC, and both of them have pretty similar interests to my own. When I look at the course list, I get excited. When I look at NIU's 4-hour comprehensive exam on a topic I probably won't find very interesting, I feel a little dread. I think, would I thrive there?

What's more valuable? Doing what makes you happy and would probably make you a better and more interesting philosopher, or doing what's financially responsible? 

[Franzkafka]

What I more meant was events, not necessarily auditing courses. Either way, BC itself seems like an exciting place to be. NIU is not fully funded, it is a possible one-year tuition waiver. I'll be taking on debt at either school. BC also has on campus opportunities, positions in departments and so on. I will be applying for a position in Women and Gender studies that is 20 hours a week and provides a 15k a year stipend for two years. If I landed something like that, it would seriously reduce the amount of debt I'll need to take out. It is also not as if I will be supporting myself completely. I will be moving with my boyfriend, who will have a full time job and help support us financially. 

I just can't feel okay missing out on a lot of exciting opportunity to study things I really wanted to anyway (Russian language as the language requirement, for instance, philosophy of film as well.) Sure, I could study independently, but I thought being surrounded by like-minded individuals was part of the magic of getting a graduate degree. I have so far met two other future MA students at BC, and both of them have pretty similar interests to my own. When I look at the course list, I get excited. When I look at NIU's 4-hour comprehensive exam on a topic I probably won't find very interesting, I feel a little dread. I think, would I thrive there?

What's more valuable? Doing what makes you happy and would probably make you a better and more interesting philosopher, or doing what's financially responsible? 

If I were you, I will choose BC. Because I think that the match between the program and AOI is very important. That is why I turned down school A for school B, though school A has a better overall strength and funding package. 

[Dumbnamechange]

If I were you, I will choose BC. Because I think that the match between the program and AOI is very important. That is why I turned down school A for school B, though school A has a better overall strength and funding package. 

 

It's just an MA. Two years; four semesters; 10 classes? I don't intend this to be some resounding, final judgment, but—not only are you avoiding debt—you are not losing that many years of your life held up in some Gitmo of Analytic philosophy.

 

As far as I was told, NIU's TA position is renewable under certain (albeit unreliable) conditions. Although you're right that it's far from guaranteed for a second year, don't completely rule out the possibility of avoiding debt.

 

If you really are as existentially repulsed by analytic philosophy as it seems (by what you've said and the interests in your signature), then I imagine this dilemma is somewhat pulling away from a purely academic/professional choice anyways. By this I don't mean to say your problem seems sentimental—because that's sorta fine, I completely understand that and was just there myself. Only: I don't see any "professional factors" settling this one way or the other for you; at this point, I don't think they should, let alone could. It's up to you to decide how much you want to pay for the two year ride. (OK, I'm wholly projecting how I thought of it when I was in the same situation, and I decided the kind of passive satisfaction for a short two years I would get at the fit school is not worth tens of thousands of debt.)

 

Also, don't rely too much on working a part time job if you also are supposed to TA or do anything similar at BC. Grad school will be full-time. (This, also, was a deal-breaker fact for me going to a Boston university) 

[Dumbnamechange]

Sorry, what I just said is bound to come off the wrong way and I don't know to edit on a phone. All I mean in terms of "sentimentality" and "professional factors" is that it seems like, in your case, you'd be fooling yourself if you let your decision turn on some small technical detail(s) about the two programs any of us might be able to tell you about.

That's definitely what I realized when I made my decision at least, and I don't regret it.

[armchair_revolutionary]

I think dumbnamechange said it all best. It is only two years and there is a larger problem at play here: you will not be able to avoid analytic philosophy forever! Of course, no one will be asking someone who is a continentalist at heart to devote their life's work to analytic study, but a decent PhD program will expect you to be well rounded. This is reflected in comprehensive exams.

And now there is that little issue of money. If, as you have been told at NIU, you can reasonably expect at least a first year tuition waver that is a lot of money you will be saving. On the other hand it looks like financial aid at BC is sparse to nil, and with a 24k per semester tuition you are easily looking at 100k of debt. And that is not even factoring in the cost of having a roof over your head and eating a meal every now and then. Of course, if cost is not a burden due to familial aid then this is not a major point. I would imagine that not to be the case. I just cannot imagine a circumstance, for me at least, that would justify exiting an MA program and applying to PhD programs with a 100k ball and chain around my ankle.

[dgswaim]

I went to the place that suited my interests best and had the people I thought I'd most enjoy working closely with. There aren't that many places at the MA level that have notable strengths in history and philosophy of biology and mathematical logic, but my reasoning was that being at a place that serves my interests and that has people I really enjoy working with means that I'll develop closer relationships with the relevant faculty, which means better letters and the like. Plus, I want to enjoy myself when I do philosophy.