Need advice from graduate students in Physical/theoretical Chemistry!

[nguoicailay]

Hello,
I’m Chemistry Major/ junior at a university in California.  My total GPA is 3.94, and major GPA is 4.0. I estimate I will have a total of 2.5 years of research lab experience when I apply to graduate school.

I love to pursue Ph.D. in Physical/theoretical Chemistry although people around me (even my family) discourage me from pursuing it.  They think that it is a challenging but dead-end field.  My parents are very mad at me and want me to pursue MD degree because they think that MD earns more money and is suitable for a woman than this field. However, despite discouragements and bouts of self-doubt, I will stick to my goal. My degree program does not well-prepare for this field.  I have bought books and taught myself linear algebra, vector calculus, Complex variable, differential equations, probability theory, and Fortran (I know that I need more knowledge).    

My questions are:

I heard that because there are fewer applicants for Physical/Theoretical Chemistry, it is much easier to get into Ph.D programs at top schools (UCB, Havard, Cal Tech, MIT, etc.) Is that right?

How did you guys (graduate students in Physical/theoretical Chemistry) prepare during undergraduate years when undergraduate program does not prepare much knowledge for this field?

What is your advice for me, an undergraduate who wish to get into top schools in Physical/theoretical Chemistry? What do you wish that you should have done or prepared during undergraduate years?

Thank you very much!

 

[Hijojo]

Yay physical chemists!

 

From your description, it sounds like you're doing everything right so far. I have no how competitive physical/theoretical chemistry is compared to organic or biochemistry, but from my (albeit n=1) experience, I think you'd be competitive for the schools you mention. 

 

As for things you can do now: I know you mention that your program doesn't have much p-chem focus, but could you branch out into the math, computer science or physics departments more? I think having some formal coursework may look better than self-teaching. I don't think it's absolutely necessary, but it's something I wish I did more of as an undergrad and it could help.

 

Otherwise, I think the biggest thing you could do is starting to figure out who you want to work with and network. You mention these top schools, but research fit is more important than rank, so I suggest focusing more on who you want to work with than. And once you figure out who these people are, seeing if you can meet them in some way - one of the most helpful things I did was to meet with a bunch of professors that I was interested in working with at a conference. Does your advisor have connections to these people? Can you use that?

 

Good luck!

[SymmetryOfImperfection]

sup, I'm in chemical physics. Its a great field and very cool. My previous degree was in physics.

 

MD is money doctor - you gotta have money to be a doctor. PHD is poor hungry doctor - you can be this doctor even if you are poor and hungry.

 

Don't worry about gender but do note that alot of guys and girls in physical chemistry are not exactly the most social people out there.

 

It is not that much easier though.

[Quantum Buckyball]

sup, I'm in chemical physics. Its a great field and very cool. My previous degree was in physics.

 

MD is money doctor - you gotta have money to be a doctor. PHD is poor hungry doctor - you can be this doctor even if you are poor and hungry.

 

Don't worry about gender but do note that alot of guys and girls in physical chemistry are not exactly the most social people out there.

 

It is not that much easier though.

 

amen  

[St Andrews Lynx]

I love to pursue Ph.D. in Physical/theoretical Chemistry although people around me (even my family) discourage me from pursuing it.  They think that it is a challenging but dead-end field.  My parents are very mad at me and want me to pursue MD degree because they think that MD earns more money and is suitable for a woman than this field. 

Parents don't always know best. An MD degree will give you a painful amount of debt, and you'll spend a lot of time paying back that debt before you get to the "earning more money" stage. By contrast, you get paid to do a Chemistry PhD at all reputable US universities. 

 

The gender ratio will also depend on exactly which subfield of Physical/Theoretical chemistry you do. For instance, the more biophysical research groups I've seen have more female PhDs than the purely theoretical labs. 

 

Is it possible to take relevant summer courses or do a research project at another university? My big state school has a program in place that allows undergraduates from liberal arts colleges/primarily undergrad teaching institutions to come and do summer research in an R1 (research intensive university) environment. 

[metallocene2015]

What you heard about their being more spots for physical chemists at top programs is probably true- I've heard this exact statement from the pchem prof at my current institution (he went to MIT and many of his students have also been accepted to top programs in pchem) and also, I hear of far far fewer ochem applicants getting into top schools like MIT and Princeton than I do pchem people. So I guess my answer to the first question is YES.

[nguoicailay]

To Hijojo:
I considered double-majoring in either Math/Chemistry or Physics/Chemistry.  My parents were very mad when I told them that.  I eventually did not do double major even though it looks better if I have an extra degree. It is not because of my parents. It is because self-taught learning, for me, is much faster to gain knowledge.  I’m naturally a self-taught person, and I find that my schooling actually interferes with my learning.
My PI and I are not very close because he is very busy.  I think that I have to make to connection with the professors at my desire graduate school by myself.  Thank you for your advice.

To all:

I will never give up on this field. I know that money is vital, but only Chemistry can make me happy.  Actually, I finished the prerequisites for med school with decent grades but did not apply.  I’m tired of making flashcards and memorizing. I keep telling my parents that I don’t want that in the future, when I get back from hospital, I tell myself “Oh, God! Tomorrow, I have to do this job again”. Anyways, thank you very much!

Edited May 30, 2015 by nguoicailay

[eeee1923]

If you don't love medicine it will be quite difficult (not impossible) to complete med school plus it will play into how effect of a doctor or surgeon you become. If you enjoy chem research - go for it. You'll have less debt and enjoy your work which will play into your effectiveness as a research scientist.

[janadias]

I know this is a late response but hopefully you're still following this topic. I think the advice give here is very good, and I'd take it,  however I'd like to emphasize that your criteria for choosing a school should not be based on it's popularity (the so called "big schools")  - regardless of the field you choose to pursue, it should be primarily guided by research interest. I cannot emphasize this enough!! It's not a job that you can force yourself to do it; you must really be passionate about it, otherwise you may end up miserable or even alcoholic (there a few such cases). 

And I will add that particularly in Computational, good groups are spread throughout. Of course you have Martin Head-Gordon at UC Berkeley and John Tully at Yale, but you have have currently amazing work being done at Temple, USC, UMN, Iowa State, Michigan State etc., that are not considered "top schools." I just wanted to get that out there.

 

As for the MD thing, I come exactly from the same place. A lot of people give into their parents and do it anyway, so congratulations that you took the matter into your own hands. For me, the pressure was so big that I had to lie to my parents about taking the MCAT and applying to Med schools, even though I secretly had applied only to graduate schools. To this day they believe that I didn't get accepted, that's why I choose graduate school lol. It's not that I'm afraid to tell them, but I just never bothered because I know they'll get extremely annoying. Even now my dad sometimes asks me if I can still apply and drop out of grad school with a masters. It is a genuinely comical situation.