Applying to multiple programs in same university?

[Desi_Enigma]

Hello friends,

 

Its my younger brother's turn to apply for graduate schools, and he has some questions for which I don't have comprehensive answers. So, I thought I'll post it here and get your opinion.

 

Short question: Are the odds of admission success when applying to multiple programs in the same university, and applying to different universities, the same or comparable? (i.e. chances of admit when comparing application to programs A & B in school X; vs applying to one program in school X and one program in school Y - assume X and Y are of similar ranks/reputation)

 

He is interested in doing a PhD related to optimization, signal processing, and machine learning. The thing is, he has limited his options based on location. Basically he wants to study either in California (I'm here and Cal has same weather as back home in India) or at CMU (have a cousin there). Basically, he is a wuss and is kind of scared about moving to the US. He is willing to come only if he can be close to friends/family, which is possible only in California or CMU.

 

He did his BS in ECE, and considering his interests, he doesn't mind a PhD in any of EE, CS, Statistics, or Operations Research. Is there any use in applying to more than one program at the same university? Say he applies to both ECE and CS at UCSD, are the applications considered "separate", so that he won't get outright rejected for all the programs. CMU is also similar where one can apply for multiple programs in the school of computing. Is there any use in applying to more than one program in the same university or is it just a waster of money?

 

Basically he just has 5 universities in mind (Stanford, CMU, UCSD, UCLA, USC) and wants to get into one of these. He doesn't mind the program as long as it is one of the above mentioned. Normally people suggest applying to at least 8 programs to be safe. Does applying to multiple programs (thus bringing up the total number of applications to 10) increase the odds? Is he putting all his eggs in very few baskets? Please share your thoughts.

[shinigamiasuka]

A lot of universities don't allow you to apply to more than one program in an application season. I hope he keeps that in mind when he's applying. He's most probably going to need to have full sets of separate application packages in that case--which is like twice the work per university--and each of these applications is going to be treated as separate.

 

It's better to see the strengths of the different research areas at each university and apply to whichever suits him and his interests the best.

[svent]

If he's applying to M.S. and Ph.D. in the same department, that's a bad idea. The same people will likely be reading both applications. Even if different departments, people talk, and that's still not a good idea. Explaining the situation to his LOR writers could be awkward as well.

I hope his profile is very strong. All of those schools are very tough to get into. You know, there are other schools in CA: UCSB, UCD, UCSC, UCR, ...

More importantly, how is he going to take the initiative it takes to get a Ph.D. if he has someone else posting for him here?

[Desi_Enigma]

More importantly, how is he going to take the initiative it takes to get a Ph.D. if he has someone else posting for him here?

This is a classic. He brings up reason after reason which don't really make any sense. But, I can clearly see where his problem lies. He is just scared of moving away from home, and he won't admit it.

 

Some people may not be able to relate to this, but lifestyle is completely different in India. Parents take care of everything for kids; there are servant maids for everything; people have drivers etc. Some spoilt kids find it very hard to adapt (I personally found the first couple of months quite hard )

Most Indian students have this problem, but my brother is kind of an extreme case. By nature he is quite scared and an introvert, right from childhood. So, I don't really know how to convince him. He will also never admit that this is his problem, but would rather point out some drawbacks of all other universities (while these five would have pretty much the same issues).

 

If he's applying to M.S. and Ph.D. in the same department, that's a bad idea. The same people will likely be reading both applications. Even if different departments, people talk, and that's still not a good idea. Explaining the situation to his LOR writers could be awkward as well.

No, he is pretty set on PhD. Also, we can't really afford an MS. I barely scrape through with my stipend, and my parents have no intention of taking out a loan. Yes, LORs will be a problem. Professors from different departments discussing the application was exactly the point of the question. Does that happen? Are you saying that, if he is rejected by one, his chances of getting into another department is slim (or lesser compared to an application at another school of similar repute)?

 

Regarding his profile, I think its reasonably strong. Stanford and CMU might be out of his league (MS possible, but we can't afford) but I guess the rest are fair game. But you never know with PhD applications :\

[svent]

Some people may not be able to relate to this, but lifestyle is completely different in India. Parents take care of everything for kids; there are servant maids for everything; people have drivers etc. Some spoilt kids find it very hard to adapt (I personally found the first couple of months quite hard )

 

Many families are like this in America too. My parents provided everything for me, even during college, spoiled me in some ways. But at some point you have to become an adult.

 

They probably do discuss, depends on how close they are. In many universities, EE and CS are one department anyway. Also, Master's isn't necessarily out of the question. Many students can find funding, it's just not guaranteed before enrollment. I understand it's trickier for internationals, having to prove you have some funding beforehand though.

 

I'm saying that if he applies to EE and CS, there's a strong chance they'll talk to each other and say "this guy doesn't even know what he wants." He'll get rejected by both. Some schools also only allow 1 application. I recommend picking 1 thing. I also recommend choosing a field, and not just applying to every possible program near family.

 

Why wouldn't he apply to Berkeley if he thinks he can get into Stanford?

 

Again, many other schools in CA are very good. Santa Barbara and Davis are quite strong. Davis is very close to the bay area. SB is pretty close to LA and I've seen quite a few UCSB graduates here in the bay area myself. Irvine is very strong and is near both LA and San Diego. I'm not sure about your family situation, but I hope he knows CA is a very large state with very heavy traffic. For example, Stanford is much farther away from San Diego than Arizona State is.

 

Why would your parents need to take out a loan? He's an adult, I'd think that'd be on him.

[Desi_Enigma]

I'm here at LA, so I guess he has some preference to UCLA, USC, and UCSD. From what I gather (I haven't personally looked into this), UCSB is not that strong in machine learning as far as CS goes. But I heard they have a kick-ass signal processing group in ECE, so he "might" be interested, though a question of research fit might crop up.

 

Why wouldn't he apply to Berkeley if he thinks he can get into Stanford?

Bay area is also a fair game since we have some working class family there. I think he will shoot an app to UCB too, but I am not too optimistic about those chances. I am also kind of talking him into applying for UT Austin. I think he has a fair chance there, and I have heard that the ML faculty is strong. Also, I have heard from many friends that Austin is very Indian-like (climate, culture, demographics etc.) so he might be OK there.

 

Why would your parents need to take out a loan? He's an adult, I'd think that'd be on him.

The concept of education loans are not well established in India. Even one semester unfunded is kind of a big deal when you factor in the exchange rate. Also, loans in India are against a collateral. So we basically need to take a loan against some asset, which in our case is just a house. My parents would rather have him do his PhD in India itself instead of spending a hefty amount when he is not particularly fond of coming here. Funded offer is a different ball game, the worst case scenario then is just one wasted year. If he is that bad in adapting to a new place, he can simply go back and do a PhD in India. As I said, he is kind of an exception - an extreme case of introvert, hyper, and shut type of person.

 

Thanks for your inputs

Edited June 26, 2015 by Desi_Enigma

[svent]

Well check out UC Irvine too. It's near LA (OC area). I too have family near LA, but I'd still prefer to end up in the bay area (not just because of jobs). Obviously easier said than done since UCB and Stanford are so selective, but still.

 

Also, I think Utah funds its Master's students (not sure if all of them). You can try to find some other schools that do too.